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.357 Sig Ft Lbs of Force

This is a discussion on .357 Sig Ft Lbs of Force within the Ammo and Reloading forums, part of the Gun Forum category; How many use the .357 sig for carry or home defense. Looking at Federal HST... ft lbs of force... 9mm: 326 .45 ACP: 405 .357 ...


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Old 06-14-2017, 08:21 AM   #1
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.357 Sig Ft Lbs of Force

How many use the .357 sig for carry or home defense.

Looking at Federal HST... ft lbs of force...
9mm: 326
.45 ACP: 405
.357 sig: 513

Wondering why .357 sig hasn't become a more widely available and used round?
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Old 06-14-2017, 08:40 AM   #2
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My P229R/.357 is my backup carry gun--mostly winter carry or when going to those extra scary places I have to go to. I use 125 gr. Speer Gold Dot HP's with 6 petals (LE).
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Old 06-14-2017, 08:50 AM   #3
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It's too loud and has to sharp of a recoil pulse IMO, plus there's no need I can see for anything other than 9MM or .40 S&W or .45 ACP.
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Old 06-14-2017, 08:51 AM   #4
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Probably because the vast majority of people don't look past size. Either you pack a 9 because it's cheap and reliable, you pack a .45 because bigger is better, or you pack a .40, because you watched a cops re-run and that's what they carried in the Birmingham Sheriff's Dept. .357 Sig is a great round.
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Old 06-14-2017, 08:55 AM   #5
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I used to carry 357sig, used the same ammo as bblr spear gold dots
They are not popular for many reason, and while I personally love the round I can completely understand why.

1) They are difficult to reload due to the bottleneck. Not many people out there can do it or care to take the time to do it.
2) With 9mm +p+, you are essentially firing the same round. I believe the .357 125 gr goes about 1400-1450fps, the 9mm+p+ 124gr goes around 1350fps
3) Same capacity as 40sw, so why not just carry 40sw at that point. I believe the force comes out about the same.
4) Unless everyone starts making .357 guns and ammo, it is way too expensive of a round to carry and train with consistently (the reason I stopped carrying it)
5) Recoil management is very different and too snappy for most
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Old 06-14-2017, 09:49 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkao42 View Post
I used to carry 357sig, used the same ammo as bblr spear gold dots
They are not popular for many reason, and while I personally love the round I can completely understand why.

1) They are difficult to reload due to the bottleneck. Not many people out there can do it or care to take the time to do it.
2) With 9mm +p+, you are essentially firing the same round. I believe the .357 125 gr goes about 1400-1450fps, the 9mm+p+ 124gr goes around 1350fps
3) Same capacity as 40sw, so why not just carry 40sw at that point. I believe the force comes out about the same.
4) Unless everyone starts making .357 guns and ammo, it is way too expensive of a round to carry and train with consistently (the reason I stopped carrying it)
5) Recoil management is very different and too snappy for most
I love it. (almost as much as 10mm )

I reload it. (it's slightly more case prep and picky about bullets, but I wouldn't go so far as saying its 'difficult' to reload)

I carry it. (not all the time though, but only because of the platform, not the cartridge)
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Last edited by Shooter Magavin; 06-14-2017 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 06-14-2017, 10:01 AM   #7
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I love 357 SIG, but will not carry it at night due to muzzle flash.

The +P 9mm Gold Dot goes 1220 fps while the 357 SIG GD goes 1320 fps. The 9mm ammo is easier to find and less expensive.

If I were to move up to a +P+, I would put a 9mm barrel in a P226 357 SIG and just change the magazines. The +P+ rounds shorten the life of 9mm slides and frames. The 357/40 slides are slightly heavier.

Bill
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Old 06-14-2017, 10:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMcGoo View Post
I love 357 SIG, but will not carry it at night due to muzzle flash.

The +P 9mm Gold Dot goes 1220 fps while the 357 SIG GD goes 1320 fps. The 9mm ammo is easier to find and less expensive.

If I were to move up to a +P+, I would put a 9mm barrel in a P226 357 SIG and just change the magazines. The +P+ rounds shorten the life of 9mm slides and frames. The 357/40 slides are slightly heavier.

Bill
You can also run a heavier spring for +P+. I've had pretty good success using a 40sw spring while running +p+ ammo for training.
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Old 06-14-2017, 10:20 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMcGoo View Post
I love 357 SIG, but will not carry it at night due to muzzle flash.

Bill
The right powder (or ammo type/manufacturer) can address that issue. Lots of powders with flash suppressant additives now a days , BE-86, CFE-Pistol...etc. Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, Speer...etc.

If you use the same powder in 9mm+p+ with the same length barrel as the 357SIG, you will likely get muzzle flash there too.
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:21 AM   #10
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ballisticsbytheinch.com

All handgun calibers suck. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement...
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:26 AM   #11
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Interesting thoughts and experience

.40 Ballistics

HST 180gr 1010 fps 408 ft lbs force
HST 155gr 1160 fps 463 ft lbs force
GD 180 gr 1025 fps 420 ft lbs force
GD 165gr 1150 fps 484 ft lbs force

The GD 165gr comes within 6% of the muzzle energy of the HST .357 sig
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:45 AM   #12
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Penetration on the 357Sig, when using standard loads, seems to be consistently better than 40S&W even if you can get within 6%ME. I'm just getting familiar with 357Sig but find that its more accurate out of the same gun (only barrel change) with the same companies ammo than the 40S&W. Cider block tests show that it destroys them in 1/2 the rounds that the 40 takes too. Haven't tried an old car door but the reports online are that its superior there too (hence highway patrols using it).
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:46 AM   #13
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I have barrels for 357 SIG as well as .40. These are my rules of thumb.

My House weapon is a P 229R with .40 barrel, Light, laser and loaded with 180 Grain Remington Golden Sabers. These are (according to the Lucky Gunner tests) the best performing semi auto ammunition with the possible exception of the new .45 from Hornaday.

My Street weapon is either a 229 SAS or a 239 SAS loaded with .357 SIG 125 Grain Speer on top of Underwood ammunition. These are 1500 FPS rounds that no +P or +P+ 9MM can match. The expansion is very uniform, and there is 600 + Foot Pounds of energy transferred. Look at the tnoutdoors tests of the Underwood

I research what I use and why. I want a 3/4 inch hole carved into the 13 inches of my attacker in my home without worrying about over penetration into the next home. Hence the .40 HD weapon.

On the street, I may run into a wider series of scenarios Hence the Gold Dot on top of Underwood.

My $.02.
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Old 06-14-2017, 11:59 AM   #14
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A couple thoughts to ponder. Bullets running faster, hence delivering greater force, don't always expand as designed. Bullets perform best within certain velocity parameters, faster isn't always better. Also, when comparing the three velocities you have posted in the your original post, the differences really aren't all that significant, especially when you start comparing to the forces delivered by some rifle rounds. A 55 gr bullet in 223 will deliver about 1300 ft lbs of force. A 130 gr bullet in 270 Win can come up around 2800 ft lbs. 180 gr in 308 Win can deliver about 2800 ft lbs. If you really want force, get the round to deliver it. Handguns are easier to carry and conceal, hence the willingness to make the compromise in force delivered.
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Old 06-14-2017, 12:05 PM   #15
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MC.
You have the right of it. Handgun calibers are from 0-30 Feet in terms of their real use. And the combination of penetration and expansion is minimal compared to serious weapons. BUT, you do have to account for those as your matrix of performance in a SD weapon/Ammunition.
I have listed my combination. Your mileage may vary.
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