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Intimidation factor

6K views 47 replies 19 participants last post by  hwarang54 
#1 ·
I have been doing a lot of research on CC, CCW and people who CC. All things considered, I find that intimidation is probably the main deterrent in many a public encounter. During a fight-or-flight response, most people go with flight.

I want to know how many of you would agree or disagree to this statement.
 
#2 ·
Depends. I think if I am clearly in a cornered situation, and I feel as if I wont be able to control the situation, I will fight. Given my combatives training Id rather make someone submit rather than pull my gun, that is the last thing I want to do. In the right circumstances I will pull my firearm in order to protect me or another. But if I know I can get away without harm then I will flee.
 
#3 ·
All things considered, I find that intimidation is probably the main deterrent in many a public encounter.
Respectfully, if that's your thinking, then you're not ready to carry.

Intimidation factor should have nothing at all to do with your buying decision for a CCW.

The weapon should only be presented when you're ready to use it.

At that point, what the damn thing looks like is totally irrelevant. Everything depends on how well you can use it, its reliability, and its stopping power.
 
#5 ·
bohner69: If cornered, there really isn't a flight option. I would right tooth-and-nail to save my life if I absolutely had to.

Majorhavoc: That is indeed what I typed, but it didn't come out right. I didn't mean to say THE major deterrent, but A major deterrent. I apologize for this discrepancy. It is.something I have found to be, at least, moderately true, but not my complete belief.

Trust me when I say I am not concerned at all whether I am intimidating anyone or not. I do not carry as my training and skill level with my gun are not on par with where they need to be at this point. I have my CWP, but do not trust myself enough to carry this firearm with me and use it effectively when (God forbid) that time every came. I may only be 26 years old, but I know enough to believe that simply having any piece of equipment and not having the proper training to use it means nothing. I have shot thousands of rounds in my lifetime, but not with this p250. And what good will that even do me if I can't unholster?

I just find it curious as I am watching much anti-gun "news" coverage ,as most news coverage on guns tends to be anti, that show actual CCTV footage, the moment another firearm is pointed at the perpetrator, they lose most sense on what to do. I have seen much trigger pulling, but it is generally in the direction of the ceiling.
 
#10 · (Edited)
If there is a choice between fight and flight, and as a CCW holder you choose to fight, there is a very high likelihood you are going to go to jail.

CCW holders should be even more careful about avoiding confrontations than unarmed folks should be.

If what you meant is that most bad guys will flee if a gun is pulled on them, then you are again treading on shaky legal ground. If you draw on someone with the intent to scare them off, then by definition you were not in mortal fear for your life (otherwise you would have immediately fired). That means you will be vulnerable to a charge of brandishing, and again, you may be going to jail.
 
#11 ·
I agree with you in all of this. The reason I chose this forum over others is that it seemed to me that you were all straight to the point, honest, and sometimes brutally so, which I can appreciate, as that's how I am. This group also seems to be very well educated and I can learn much from all of you.

However, if one, in mortal fear for their life, pulls a gun and the bg runs, is that still considered brandishing? Im new to all of this CC and its finer intricacies that you cannot simply read in state statutes. BTW, I am from Florida and I know our laws are all weird.
 
#14 ·
Under Florida statutes, we do not have a "brandishing" law, necessarily, insofar as to say the word "brandish" in all of its forms are not used. We do have an "inappropriate exhibition" statue which says that we can't expose the weapon in a "rude, threatening or angry manner."

Again, Florida laws are all kinds of weird....
 
#16 ·
Maine law says "you or someone else have to clearly be in a life or death situation." So I would only pull my firearm if I knew that me or someone else was going to die or be severely injured. Another thing to consider, does the other person have a weapon? Just because they are bigger than you doesn't justify you to pull your weapon on them. I know what many of you are going to say; "if they threaten to kill me im going to pull my gun." In my state, I would go to prison if they had no weapon.
 
#17 ·
Man it would SUCK to live in Maine, but I use to live in Mass...ahh but I digress. In non friendly circles I don't reveal my gun or its existence to anyone and if I do take it out it's for its intended purpose, and I will use it. SO, it does not come out unless the situation is that DIRE, someone is about to be very gravely injured (in the process of) or a life is about to be extinguished. Other than that, the light at the range is all it takes for it to maintain that healthy Florida tan it enjoys :D.
 
#18 ·
If you are not comfortable with a weapon: SEEK TRAINING AND PRACTICE. There are lots of pistol training drills on pistol-training.com and lots of information on that forum. Watch Jerry Miculek shoot in 3-gun, watch Rob Leatham, Rob Pincus, Michelle Viscusi, Clint Smith, Bob Munden, whatever. Emulate professionals and build your own training regimen. Use .22 caliber handguns to practice draws and putting rounds on target smoothly and accurately. There's a LOAD of instructional videos available from the top schools in the nation.
 
#19 ·
We were instructed never to brandish, fire warning shots, or even shoot to maim. Only if you are so threatened as to fear for your life, shoot to kill. Then be prepared to go directly to jail and defend your actions which may cost you around $60K. That is what you have to look forward to if you successfully convince the court you were justified in commiting 2nd degree murder.

The Virginia permit allows you to carry a concealed weapon. It does not allow you to use it.
 
#30 ·
This is a perfect example of an UNjustified homicide. The BG posed no threat and was fleeing. Six bullet holes in his back? Hope she looks good in a jumpsuit.
 
#27 ·
In Virginia, you are required to flee no matter what the situation. The only time you can pull your firearm and use it is if "your back is against the wall" and you have nowhere to run and the B G follows. Only time I would really see myself pulling the firearm at all is a mass shooting that I would try to end or I really have fled and cannot run anymore. Also, in VA it is worse of a crime to "brandish" your firearm than to shoot someone. If your firearm comes out you pretty much have to use it...
 
#33 ·
In today's day of frivilous lawsuits, I think if I clear leather it's going to go "bang" - and it will definitely be the last resort. To get to that point, every possible avenue will be utilized - even if it means flight...
 
#34 ·
My first training came from range master who was also a tactical entry leader. He came in first in the only gunfight he was in. There was no second-place winner.

His thoughts on the matter that we are not shooting to kill; we are shooting to stop the action that caused us to shoot in the first place.

A kill, or a wound, is in an after-the-fact consequence, he explained. Shoot at the center mass of what you can see.
 
#35 ·
To me if you have to imtimidate you put yourself in a bad situation. When in public you should be alert, stay alert, know what your surrounding are, and who is around you. You should never brandish, that's showing off. If the situation has turned into a shituation, then you should deploy the weapon, and use that force that is needed to stop the threat. Most of the time deploying your weapon and directing at the threat is enough to stop it. If you are faced with a threat give loud, clear commands to the threat...don't threaten. If it's in a public place and you deploy your weapon people are going to be calling and the law enforcement are going to come running. If you are with someone have them call 911 so they can advise them what the situation is, let them know how to identify you, who you are, and that you aren't the threat. keep your attention on the threat, stay in control of yourself, and keep giving commands. Those other people around you may not know what is going on, but they will be on the phone yelling at the dispatcher that someone has a gun. When law enforcement gets there they won't know who you are, and will see you as a threat. ID yourself as soon as possible, and listen to their commands, because they aren't going to argue with you about gun rights.
 
#38 ·
Intimidation is actually the complete opposite of what you want to do when you're carrying a weapon. In my opinion, in the ideal defensive situation, the bad guy will never even know you're armed until is far too late, if at all. If I can keep myself concealed and maneuver into a position to take out a threat without them ever even knowing I'm there, great. I'm not worried about fighting fairly. I've also personally decided that if I ever have to unholster my weapon, there's about a 99.9% chance I'm going to be using it for its intended purpose, because I'm not going to pull my weapon unless I'm pretty darn sure I have no other option but to use it to defend myself or others. And, once you start sending rounds down range, intimidation is not a factor because all you're trying to do is stop the threat, not intimidate.

Also, in most jurisdictions, if anyone knows you have a gun you could be subject to "brandishing" or at the very least "failure to properly conceal" charges even if you were right to pull your weapon or it just accidently became visible. So, making sure no one knows you're armed is pretty important. Instead, when in public you should remain alert and aware of your surroundings, walk with confidence, and keep your head on a swivel. When you do that, the bad guys will look at you and think you're not the person to mess with. The term we learn in the military for that is to make yourself a hard target. If you look alert and prepared for danger, most bad guys will seek a more vulnerable target.
 
#39 ·
Ok.... I have had time to think more clearly on this and, with much research and learning, would like to restate my question in a much clearer sense.

First I would like to apologize to everyone that thinks I'm a wacko nut-job who wants to carry around a Dirty Harry gun to show it to everyone I think looks weird. This was not my intention.

What I meant to say was closer to something like this: What would the likelihood be of a BG turning and running when you draw a firearm, in lawful self-defense? I have seen some "carry" pistols, namely Derringer (sorry if you own one) that if I TRUELY want to do someone ill-will, I would sit there and laugh at them, as opposed to a P226 or 1911, which I would quickly turn and run as fast as I could. Also, in the same scenario, I would be more likely to run from someone who looks like they trained, as opposed to someone gripping the pistol one-handed and parallel to the floor.

To try and be more on target here: What is the likelihood that I would have to actually fire my pistol after the BG has seen it? Does the fact that I am armed have any psychological effect on the BG's reaction? I guess, what I am trying to do is put you in the BG's shoes for now, although we all know that we are not them, nor will we ever be, hopefully. If I ever have to draw, I would have EVERY intention of making that 4-mile DAO P250 trigger pull.

Perhaps the LEO/MIL have more insight on this than I do. First, I would like to SINCERELY thank all of you LEO/MIL for your service or continued service, but I hope to never see what you have to, nor do the things that you do on a daily basis. I am simply an individual exercising my rights to protect myself and my loved ones. I do wish, however, that I could get the kind of training you do....

Thank you all for your responses and not treating me like I'm a complete idiot, just new to the whole HG and CC thing.
 
#40 ·
Well, in Virginia I can't draw on someone unless I am in mortal fear for my life or the life of someone else. If I am already struggling with someone who is trying to kill me and I can reach my weapon, I am going to shoot him, simple as that. In that instance it's me or him, and I'd prefer to come out ahead.

The other scenario in which I might draw is if someone comes at me with a deadly weapon but hasn't closed the distance yet. If that weapon is anything short of a gun, such as a knife or a bat, I would cover them and command them to "stop because I don't want to shoot you." I would say that very, very loud hoping that some third party witness might hear me declare my reluctance to shoot. If they continued to rush me with a deadly weapon despite the warning, I would fire.

This second scenario, of course, assumes that I would have time to do all that prior to firing, which might not be the case. It is amazing how much distance you need between you and a threat armed with a knife in order to be able to draw and fire before they can reach you.
 
#42 ·
Sorry--I forgot to specifically answer that. Yes, I think that most rational people (even BGs) would halt and retreat once they realize that they brought a knife to what is going to be a gunfight unless they check themselves. Logic doesn't apply to drug addicts or psychotics though.
 
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