SigTalk is a forum community dedicated to SIG Sauer enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about Sig Sauer pistols and rifles, optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!
I'm a teacher/coach in Florida at a rural school and the past few days I've been hearing about something being passed or at least looked at to allow trained teacher to carry in school.
Is this true? Whats your opinion on trained teachers or staff other than SRO's carrying in school?
While I am a rabid supporter of shall issue CCW laws, I am opposed to arming teachers. I support police/security officers in schools and controlled access to campus but putting guns into the classroom and making teachers responsible for school security, securing the weapon at ALL TIMES to make sure curious/troublesome students don't get them and ultimately taking teacher focus off teaching is the wrong way to go.
If allowed, once the first teacher looses control of his weapon and has it taken from him by a student who commits violence with it and its all over anyway. Additionally, a lot of teachers are teaching THUGS and TRAILER TRASH who would LOVE to steal a teachers gun or over power a teacher to gain access to a weapon.
If you want an armed deterrent, provide one that is trained for the job, don't arm already too busy and distracted teachers. The target discretion/shoot-no shoot judgement needed in an active school shooter situation requires VERY FOCUSED and ongoing training to acquire and maintain the nessisary skill set. I could just see a scared armed teacher engaging "no shoot" targets and adding to the bodycount instead of limiting it.
I would liken it to fire extinguisher training. You may be trained to use it but you are not a professional fire fighter. Get to safety and let the professionals take care of the problem. Plus teachers shovel enough ****, they shouldn't have to be security too.
HOT TOPIC !! You have opened the proverbial can of worms here.
I have wife who is a Teacher (Now retired but subs a lot), a daughter and a son-in-law who are teachers. I taught and coached for 14 years. All in Texas. Wife and I have completed CHL and carry and the daughter and son-in-law are in line to get theirs free of charge. Several training organizations have made the courses for certification available to educators in the state at no charge.
I whole heartedly agree certain - well trained - and along with continued refresher training maintenance personnel, custodial staff, ancillary staff and teachers should carry on campus and in the classroom.
Teachers being the last in this list in my mind for a purpose. Several factors go into this view. The others should be enough and having kids in close proximity and access to a firearm is the least advantageous of the all the choices but does not rule this out because it is surely better than no protection at all IMHO.
I understand where you all are coming from. I don't think teachers should just be arming themselves or trying to do a SRO's or administrators job. But I don't have a problem with certain teachers that have been properly trained and selected by school administration to carry.
Agree. In lieu of armed security/police, which is economical not feasible, a teacher, properly trained with a handgun AND self defense, doesn't bother me, if, and only if, they want to.
My guess is that if the students are such big thugs that there is a concern about them overtaking a teacher and getting access to the handgun, that should probably have more a potent security force than civilian teachers.
I would also say that the students need not know which teachers, or rather, if any, are armed. if the students know, it's another distraction to them.
The problem I have with police in schools is that they can, and have, gone off shooting people in excess and have no consequences for their actions. No one gets fired. An armed civilian has consequences for their actions, and will likely be a hell of a lot more careful.... but if the teachers have to use their handguns, they should be afforded proper legal counsel.
I agree with Ronin. But if the govt refuses to provide the funding for that, teachers should be allowed to carry. Just knowing that there are armed persons in a school is a deterrent.
My wife works at one of our local school districts (as an administrator, not as a teacher. Her office is in the same building with the district police office). She is working toward her CHL, but she does not want to carry at school. Her opinion, which I think is a valid one for Texas is: If you live in a rural district, then each district should consider it individually. But in the major cities, most of the school districts have reasonable police presence onsite and/or available, and that those places with reasonable police presence should not have teachers (or administrators) carry on campus.
As for the rest of her district employees, the majority do not want to have teachers carry on campus. A majority of the parents in the area agree with that assessment (from the last poll I saw).
I suspect that the Texas legislature will pass a law giving the district the decision to allow teachers to carry. I can't see any district around Houston allowing their teachers to carry though, and I can't see many of the local parents wanting teachers to be armed in the classroom.
Lots of schools have open campuses and easy access getting in. Remember CONCEALED weapon. If i were designated to carry in class no one other than administration would ever know. If students were at a point to be trying to over power a teacher, they shouldn't be in a school setting in the first place. I'm only speaking of having to use a firearm in school in an extreme case only. IE... gunman has entered my classroom ready to harm me or my students. By no means am i talking about taking over for the police. Actually, having regular armed security would be a wonderful idea if the funding was right.
Ronin makes some good points. But as an ex teacher - many teachers in the family that are still in it and a history of family teachers / administrators / coaches we all agree - armed personnel on campus is the surest deterrent and the most effective counter defense there is.
You not only have to consider the number of schools but the number of campuses per school. In my small home town of 2000 people we have a small school - Class A in the state of Texas. Yet there are 3 distinct campus buildings, an athletic complex, a special ed building and the athletic playing fields. How do you secure that kind of area ? How much fence - how many gates - how many guard stations - how many guards ? What kind of security force are you going to have to have to cover that area ? What kind of money is that going to cost that schools already don't have ? What programs are you going to have to cut to pay for that, how many teachers or what curriculum offerings ?
Now multiply that times a Houston, Dallas, St. Louis, LA, Denver, Chicago, Atlanta and on and on and on from large to medium to small nation wide. That kind of security is just not feasible unless you want to start the Federally funded, trained and maintained in boarder security army.
Short of this "army" you must consider - what is the response time for the police in case of emergency ? 3 minutes - 5 minutes - 10 minutes or more ? How many people die if there is no deterrent or armed response almost immediately ?
There are all sorts of scenarios that work in a perfect controlled world but that is not what we are talking about. We are talking about response to random mindless havoc initiated by evil. Every second it is not dealt with is bad.
So where is the middle ground here and what is the answer ?
As one Superintendent who is training and arming parts of this custodial, maintenance, and ancillary staff put it.
"Paraphrased" - I have 2000 parents that send me their kids everyday and say protect them. Right now I have 1/4" plate glass and horn between them and harm and that's just not getting it done.
In my mind this will not even slow down until the perps know there are weapons there to deter them whether it be Security Forces or campus personnel armed ... and it is a matter of what we can afford and what is feasable.
Armed school personnel is the ONLY economically feasible solution to the problem of how to secure our schools. I am a school administrator, and my school shares ONE SRO with four other schools. At any given time, he may be anywhere from five minutes to twenty minutes away.
I agree with rjtmac...it would be preferable to arm certain members of the faculty other than teachers, and then only those who are willing and well-trained.
I wholeheartedly support arming school staff and would be the first to volunteer if the measure were approved in my state and training made available. Sandy Hook principal Dawn Hochsprung rushed Adam Lanza empty handed....I would prefer to meet any threat to my students and staff on somewhat more equal terms.
I am a teacher and I think Ishould be able to carry at work if I wanted to. I can carry all the other place I see my students. My district policy will not even let me have it in my truck. They better hope nothing ever happens to me on the way to and from work. They have opened themselves up to liability.
Most of them cannot handle their own room, much less a room and a gun.[/QUOTE
They won't have to handle the gun at the same time. There's no logic in your point. If the ****, a willing/able teacher would be able to handle the threat. To make a blanket statement saying all teachers couldn't handle it is false.
Yes some teachers are not good but so are some cops and they all have guns.
I think my CHL should have an endorsement on it to carry at work. Make me go qualify every year, make the shooting test harder. Change the law so it must be on my person, not in a woman's purse.
I will be more than happy to take more training. Heck I am even willing to pay forit myself.
Do not force teacher to carry, but allow them to carry.
We only need one!! incident of a teacher, poorly trained, to shoot...not even kill..a student...or a proper visitor..AND the lib media will turn it into a circus for everyone for dinner time TV.
Next point.." not economically feasible" to have more highly trained security in schools. How's that line go.."Give me a break"... We'll send Rush, Sean, Glen, and Bill...you all know their last names... To Washington and they will find enough pork to eliminate that will easily fund the most highly trained/elite security force ever.
Reality happened in Texas just a bit ago... Two highly trained gun handlers get killed by a mentally unstable person. And we don't know all the facts...but some days bad guys prevail....cool heads will NOT let those incidents rule the day.
This country is getting just what it elected, and I could not be more sad! I hope and pray for a better tomorrow....in the mean time...more guns, ammo, and practice... Come on over ..we shoot off (I mean from) my back porch.
More folks need to read the motto on the money..."In God we trust"
I think a teacher should be able to carry if they feel comfortable and are well trained. We are talking concealed, who would ever know? What kid is going to dig in the waist band of a teacher to find a gun he has no idea it’s there in the first place? Be more likely the kid would just bring his own gun
News Flash
Guns have always been in schools (At least in the early 70's) and will continue to be in schools.
Most of these kids just don't pull the gun out
Since teachers and school administrators are NOT armed, we have precious little data on how this will turn out in practice. There is one case in which a school administrator retrieved a weapon from his vehicle:
We don't know how things will work out in all cases, and there is always the possibility of something going wrong. But in this particular case an armed administrator stopped a spree cold without firing a shot. The mere presence of a 45 automatic in the hands of a good guy ended the crisis.
Who knows but that MAYBE if he had not had to dash to his vehicle to retrieve a weapon, two more lives might have been saved!
I am a firm believer in the right to carry if properly licensed. I do not even think the fact the person is a teacher should have any bearing on the matter.
I also think that all schools should have an armed resource officer. Not just for the active "student shooter" scenario, but you have the possibility of custody dispute issues and even terrorism, plus the scenarios that we cannot even think of.
Well, my kids go to a private school and there are several teachers and staff who have concealed carry permits and are allowed to carry at school. I'll have to admit, I felt better once I found that out. I also know that they have undergone further training with the local sheriff's department, and know what to do and what not to do in case of an active shooter situation.
I think that all states should implement voluntary training programs for teachers and staff who want to carry at school. I do think there should be some special training beyond just your basic concealed carry course, and the administrators or school boards should have final approval over who is allowed to carry. But properly done, I can't see the harm.
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
SIG Talk
2.6M posts
100.1K members
Since 2010
A forum community dedicated to SIG Sauer Pistols and SIG Sauer Rifles owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!