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Glock vs Serpa?

This is a discussion on Glock vs Serpa? within the Gun Gear forums, part of the Gun Forum category; Maybe you guys can help me out here. So, there's an AD or ND or UD involving a Glock. Most everyone defends the Glock and ...


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Old 09-08-2016, 11:11 AM   #1
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Glock vs Serpa?

Maybe you guys can help me out here.

So, there's an AD or ND or UD involving a Glock. Most everyone defends the Glock and blames the operator for any mishaps. (And I agree...mostly.) And the failing they cite is training, not enough training, poor training, training but not practicing, etc.

It is said Glock has 65% of the LE market. Okay. And they've begun capturing that market say around 1985 or so(?). Now, there's a thing called "Glock leg" in connection with unintentional self-inflicted gunshot to the leg or arse. But, again, we blame the operator not the gun.

Now, the Serpa holster. Some places ban them, some places banned them and now allow them, and some places allow them. There's been articles written against them. And here we blame the holster, but not the operator. And the example cited is some guy (Tex?) who shot himself using a Serpa in 2011.

If we were to extrapolate the number of Glocks (LE and civilian) over say a 30 year period and could get a number of ADs or NDs or UDs, I would venture to say that more ADs or NDs or UDs have occurred involving Glocks than Serpa holsters.

So, why is it with Glock we blame the operator and with Serpa we blame the holster. Wouldn't the Serpa holster fall into the proper training needed category similar to the Glock. The holster didn't pull the trigger. No?
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Old 09-08-2016, 11:37 AM   #2
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Pat, I'm no expert on this subject, but just as I think you are getting at, people look for a scape goat, to not own up to being irresponsible.
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Old 09-08-2016, 11:44 AM   #3
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Don't wanna blame that precious gun that they have so much money invested in!

To me, carrying a Glock, or ANY striker-fired pistol with no safety, is like carrying around your DA/SA SIG-Sauer with the hammer cocked. Would anybody in their right mind do that? Of course not, but Glock owners do it all the time, then look for other things to blame when they send a slug down their leg or through their buttocks!

Just my opinion... nobody has to agree with it, and I certainly expect lots of flame from the tupperware crowd for even saying this!
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Old 09-08-2016, 11:44 AM   #4
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Of course it is a matter of training, but ... the SERPA holster does make it easier to have a ND given its geometrics and how it operates. Just the way it is.

Of course, a person can train to avoid that, but ... there is a reason why they are banned by so many instructors, ditto to appendix carry rigs.

I prefer a Safariland retention system to the SERPA.

Last edited by LevineII; 09-08-2016 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 09-08-2016, 11:47 AM   #5
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It is like banning guns, instead of adequately punishing those who use them maliciously!!

The Serpa holster, was because the users finger was in a "bad" position due to fingering the release, it put it "too close" to the trigger when the gun was drawn!!!

The "Glock" doesn't have a "Safety"!!! What ever happened to the cardinal rule of keeping your "trigger finger" out of the trigger guard, until ready to fire?

Maybe I'm just too old... and not "modernized"!!!
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Old 09-08-2016, 12:03 PM   #6
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I have a pilot buddy that "Mexican carries" his glock. Ive told him on several occasions, that hes crazy. He insists that hes going to be just fine. I sure hope hes right. Dude has a death wish.
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Old 09-08-2016, 12:07 PM   #7
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MCX300BLKSBR, he is... if he's like a lot of Glock owners that gets one of those light 3.5# connectors!!!
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Old 09-08-2016, 12:23 PM   #8
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I was issued a Glock/serpa and taser/serpa by instructors who bad mouthed all department issued equipment.

Smh
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Old 09-08-2016, 12:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willard View Post
MCX300BLKSBR, he is... if he's like a lot of Glock owners that gets one of those light 3.5# connectors!!!
Yeah, hes nuts. And if hes not SUPER lucky, he might end up with no nuts.
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Old 09-08-2016, 12:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCX300BLKSBR View Post
I have a pilot buddy that "Mexican carries" his glock. Ive told him on several occasions, that hes crazy. He insists that hes going to be just fine. I sure hope hes right. Dude has a death wish.
That's just idiotic, no matter what kind of handgun you are carrying.
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Old 09-08-2016, 02:13 PM   #11
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People carry glocks with 3.5-4.5 lb triggers, to me that is nuts. I carry a factory glock, but I chamber a round put the pistol in the holster and carry it. Take out the gun with holster. I appendix carry though, to me just makes more sense just to be safe. Like someone said, like carrying a sig with the hammer cocked.
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Old 09-09-2016, 06:49 AM   #12
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I have heard about the ND’s with Serpas but haven’t read up on them. Are they because the finger is too close to the trigger and the person inadvertently pulls it or does the trigger guard mechanism pull the trigger upon holstering or both? If it is the first one, then it is definitely on the operator. Not the gun or holster. Even with its design.

As far as banning the equipment, isn’t it because the mechanism can fail and lock up the gun, not necessarily because of the ND issues, or both?

-Dan
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:03 AM   #13
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The method of releasing retention is by lightly depressing the retention release with your trigger finger by laying it alongside the same location where you'd rest your trigger finger along the frame and above the trigger guard. Some people are pressing with the tip of their trigger finger instead of laying the whole finger along the release bar and when the gun comes free they are still pushing with their fingertip and that pressure now moved from the holster slips into the trigger guard and hits the trigger.

I am unaware of any lock up of the holster whereby the gun couldn't be drawn.
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:49 AM   #14
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I cannot work out this whole GL thing. For many years people carried DA/SA revolvers, no safety and drew and fired and carried them in pockets and bags and purses. Then along came the DA/SA semi-autos. Some had a safety, some not. SIG even make the odd one or two. But some bunch or other who hate plastic guns, most likely carry a steel, .45 1911 style gun invent the GL nonsense and the wonderful interweb spreads it far and wide.
ALL guns are dangerous. ALL guns can AD. I had a cheapo .380 put a hole in my hardwood floor and the manufacturer told me it was my fault because they recommend (but not in their instructions or sales ads.) you only load the chamber ON A RANGE!
That aside, the vast majority of AD's are caused by the nut holding the pistol grip. The number of Federal, State and local agencies who have tested Glocks in every way possible have confirmed they are safe IF HANDLED PROPERLY.
When you keep fingers, spare change, holster parts, dog paws, baby's hands, keys and key rings, mini flashlights, pens and anything else you can think of off of the bang switch every gun is safe.
I have watched guys, in an inattentive moment, during training on the range scratch their nose with the muzzle of a loaded pistol. They have pointed loaded guns at themselves or waved them around carelessly while checking and clearing a stoppage. PEOPLE ARE DUMB! And that includes this "people" if he gets careless or inattentive.
Treat every gun as loaded.
Always point it in a safe direction or point it at anything you do not want to destroy.
Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
Be sure of your backstop.
SAFETY is your number one job and never leave the job undone!

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Old 09-09-2016, 08:20 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulu95 View Post
I cannot work out this whole GL thing. For many years people carried DA/SA revolvers, no safety and drew and fired and carried them in pockets and bags and purses. Then along came the DA/SA semi-autos. Some had a safety, some not. SIG even make the odd one or two. But some bunch or other who hate plastic guns, most likely carry a steel, .45 1911 style gun invent the GL nonsense and the wonderful interweb spreads it<<snip>>
I am one of those who feels uncomfortable with a Glock style trigger, and I will not apologize for it either!

I've been shooting for 50 years now and have never had an ND; not to say that I never will, but I know to keep my booger-hook off the bang-switch until on target and ready to fire! That knowledge does NOT preclude the possibility of picking up my gun in the foggy stupor of a deep sleep when something goes bump in the night and you jump out of bed with your gun and flashlight before becoming wide awake, and not keeping said booger-hook completely off the bang switch as you should! During times like that, I want that heavy DA pull that my Sigs give me, and not the lightweight pull that I've felt on most striker-fired pistols lately! There is just so little margin for error there that it makes me personally uncomfortable! Again, I KNOW the finger shouldn't go on the trigger until ready to shoot, but until we humans become error-free (which will be never), I want something that allows a SMALL margin of error, within reason, and that is exactly what Sig's DA/SA pistols provide!

Regarding the reference to how people used to carry DA revolvers all the time without safeties... Well yeah! They didn't have 4.5lb trigger pulls either, and the trigger pulls were all MUCH longer than what is typical for the modern striker-fired pistol also! There is your big difference, and your safety margin! You could walk around all day with your finger on the trigger of one of those with little fear of squeezing off a round unintentionally!

Edit to add: Just so you know I've given the modern striker pistols a fair shake, a few weeks ago I traded two less desirable Sigs for a NIB Springfield XD(m) 9mm package at a LGS to try out. I absolutely LOVED the gun in almost every aspect possible! The trigger on it was simply amazing to me also as I hadn't expected to like it as well as I did!

Long story short... First time I heard strange noises in the middle of the night and had to get up to check it out, I grabbed my flashlight and the XDm off of the nightstand. My trigger finger found the trigger FIRST as I was grabbing the gun, but immediately went to its appointed place alongside the trigger guard! How much pressure did I put on the trigger before I realized I touched it first while grabbing the gun? I have no idea, but I do know that my P225 did nightstand duty from then on until I traded the XDm for an FNX a few days later!!!
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Last edited by bronicabill; 09-09-2016 at 08:33 AM.
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