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Home invasion, first hand account

This is a discussion on Home invasion, first hand account within the Gun Tactics forums, part of the Gun Forum category; Originally Posted by beancrusher Curious. Read the thread, tried the link to the original story and the link comes up with "not found" on the ...


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Old 11-21-2016, 08:45 AM   #16
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Curious. Read the thread, tried the link to the original story and the link comes up with "not found" on the news website.

Google, using the pertinent information doesn't find the story anywhere, except on message boards.

Has anyone found a credible news story on this event? It is certainly plausible, and good for discussion....but would I would like to know if the story is factual.
Comes up here. It happened in Allen County Kentucky just outside of Scottsville Kentucky.

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Old 11-21-2016, 08:49 AM   #17
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JWA, that's heavy stuff.

......
Shooting people is a weird exercise. I remember Hathcock's articulation on the matter and found it to succinctly address the reality of doing so.

Last edited by InOverMyHead; 11-21-2016 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 11-21-2016, 08:49 AM   #18
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JWA, that's heavy stuff.
Yeah.
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Old 11-21-2016, 09:01 AM   #19
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JWA, that's heavy stuff.
No doubt! JWA very sorry to hear you had to experience anything like that.
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Old 11-21-2016, 10:10 AM   #20
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That idea died decades ago and it's one of the reason crime is out of control, that crime the FBI stats never show. At one time the cops had to live in the town or city they worked in, not anymore. And the only time I see the cops out of their vehicles is when they hand the traffic ticket over.

When I was growing up we knew them by first name, them days are long gone. And they have adopted a me against them attitude and if you happen to live in a depressed area due to your economics standing you'll be treated as if you a are criminal.
You seem to be painting cops with a broad and polluted brush - I may be wrong, but it sounds like you may have some bias and maybe attitude when it comes to police. Even if this is slight, police will be attuned to it as it's part of their job to try and understand the wide variety of people they come in contact with. My point? You may be unknowingly setting yourself up to see a less pleasant, but necessary aspect of police behavior.

Much of police interaction with people is reactive. Behave in a civil, reasonable manner, present no potential threat to the officers, expect to be treated well. Have attitude, belligerence, don't expect to get treated so well. Most cops, if given the opportunity, will try to "talk a person down" to defuse the situation. The vast majority of police prefer to accomplish their job in the easiest and safest manner possible so everyone gets to go home.

Right now, police are under assault across the US. From Obama's crappy and unsupportive attitude towards police, to groups like Black Lives Matter, the well has been and remains poisoned.

As to living in the community they work in, that's a fine idea in small town America, but in the ghettos of the inner city where crime runs rife, you want them to live there? Are you nuts? Police officer's families would be at near constant risk, their home's "marked". Since police get paid enough to afford to live in middle class communities, is it surprising they choose that? Some big city police departments have tried social engineering, trying to hire from city communities or require new hires to live within a certain distance - unfortunately it doesn't work well as it's near impossible to find qualified candidates who will do the job is the inner city.

Lowered hiring standards and a strong push to recruit minorities in the mid to late 70's resulted in a few less than honest people being hired. There was a cop burglar, a stolen car parts ring, missing drugs and more - to be sure a tiny fraction of the force, but a huge disappointment and demoralizing to most all of us.
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Old 11-21-2016, 10:31 AM   #21
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Yeah.
Sorry you had to go through that, yes the decision must be made ahead of time, part of the reason of my earlier post.
If you have to think about it, you are going to run into problems, training allows us to just react to the situation, not think about reacting. Of course the vast majority of us do not train to that level, me included, but that is what is necessary to survive. What a rotten thing to have happened to you, my heart goes out to you.
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Old 11-21-2016, 01:06 PM   #22
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BB thanks for sharing this.

JWA my heart goes out to you. So very sorry to hear this.
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Old 11-21-2016, 01:27 PM   #23
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You seem to be painting cops with a broad and polluted brush - I may be wrong, but it sounds like you may have some bias and maybe attitude when it comes to police. Even if this is slight, police will be attuned to it as it's part of their job to try and understand the wide variety of people they come in contact with. My point? You may be unknowingly setting yourself up to see a less pleasant, but necessary aspect of police behavior.

Much of police interaction with people is reactive. Behave in a civil, reasonable manner, present no potential threat to the officers, expect to be treated well. Have attitude, belligerence, don't expect to get treated so well. Most cops, if given the opportunity, will try to "talk a person down" to defuse the situation. The vast majority of police prefer to accomplish their job in the easiest and safest manner possible so everyone gets to go home.

Right now, police are under assault across the US. From Obama's crappy and unsupportive attitude towards police, to groups like Black Lives Matter, the well has been and remains poisoned.

As to living in the community they work in, that's a fine idea in small town America, but in the ghettos of the inner city where crime runs rife, you want them to live there? Are you nuts? Police officer's families would be at near constant risk, their home's "marked". Since police get paid enough to afford to live in middle class communities, is it surprising they choose that? Some big city police departments have tried social engineering, trying to hire from city communities or require new hires to live within a certain distance - unfortunately it doesn't work well as it's near impossible to find qualified candidates who will do the job is the inner city.

Lowered hiring standards and a strong push to recruit minorities in the mid to late 70's resulted in a few less than honest people being hired. There was a cop burglar, a stolen car parts ring, missing drugs and more - to be sure a tiny fraction of the force, but a huge disappointment and demoralizing to most all of us.

I had a feeling that was coming. There is no bias, it's called reality, maybe not for you but for many. As far as living in the community not the whole town or city is a ghetto. And if you think hiring standards are low now they just announced in my area they are getting lower because they can't find recruits.

And I can understand why, as you say under assault but another reality is that even before all the Obama they where running on paranoid out here. My town just voted in a civilian police advisory board, I personally voted against it because they have never worked anywhere and it won't work here.

And the reasons why it got on the ballot is because the citizens where fed up because the Mayor refused to remove the police chief who covered for a retired cop down in Florida who some years back was molesting children in town.

Until the attitude of protecting cops with that blue wall of silence changes the general public will never trust them and they need us. As was demonstrated a couple of weeks ago once again down in Florida when that CCW holder saved that cop's life.

But my instincts tell me the system is coming after the guns and then the cops won't need our help. At which point it probably will go back to business as usual.

Bottom line, keep your nose clean and a low profile and the less interaction you have with the police the better your life will be.
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Old 11-21-2016, 01:34 PM   #24
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Thank you for the post. It is very thought provoking and scary. I'm thankful that he and his family are safe, but it is wrong on so many levels that they had/have to live in fear.
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Old 11-22-2016, 06:36 AM   #25
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JWA, that's heavy stuff.

Shooting people is a weird exercise. I remember Hathcock's articulation on the matter and found it to succinctly address the reality of doing so.
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No doubt! JWA very sorry to hear you had to experience anything like that.
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BB thanks for sharing this.

JWA my heart goes out to you. So very sorry to hear this.
InOverMyHead---what is the Hathcock's articulation you speak of---would be interested in reading if it's available? TIA

Gentlemen thanks for your thoughts--didn't mean to get all sad and weeping, still very much appreciate your sympathies, sincerely!

As I've come to read more and more of instances like this OP I contrast similar stories with mine, the thought fully in mind "what about the next time?" Given today's environment I want to believe I'd never again hesitate and I'm quite reasonably certain I'd not. The only factor now would be completely stopping the threat as quickly as possible with little to no regard for ammo spent.

What I would NOT do is fire again if I knew an intruder was down and/or greatly incapacitated to the point they were unable to return fire (if armed) or continue advancing on me. The so called "kill shots" after down would seem to be a huge gray area, one the rat bastiches calling themselves "attorneys" could exploit to my damage.

Echoing the sentiments towards the shooter in the OP once that part of your life has been up-ended it stays with you pretty much forever, that's not a good way to live but there's no walking back from it once its already happened. Persevere, adapt, over come!
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Old 11-22-2016, 07:07 AM   #26
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Can someone that's a member of the 1911 forum copy the photos at the bottom of the post? I don't want to join another forum just to see that one thread.

TIA.
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Old 11-27-2016, 07:54 AM   #27
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Can someone that's a member of the 1911 forum copy the photos at the bottom of the post? I don't want to join another forum just to see that one thread.

TIA.



The pic was labeled .223 to arm, burglar, they had to amputate arm (that'll bring a tear to your eye). The other pic was a hog w/ GSW.
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Old 11-27-2016, 08:55 AM   #28
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What I would NOT do is fire again if I knew an intruder was down and/or greatly incapacitated to the point they were unable to return fire (if armed) or continue advancing on me. The so called "kill shots" after down would seem to be a huge gray area, one the rat bastiches calling themselves "attorneys" could exploit to my damage.

This is why we shoot to stop the threat and not to kill.

From my readings, an anchor shoot to finish a bad guy will land you in jail for murder.
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Old 11-27-2016, 10:27 AM   #29
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Thanks Bumper.

Fardoche: your "readings" are accurate. That takes it from self-defense to capitol murder. "Incapacitated" - means no longer a threat in the legal system [and my moral system].
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Old 11-27-2016, 11:50 AM   #30
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I posted earlier this year, in detail, the incident that taught me a lot of lessons about an attempted home invasion several decades ago. Thankfully my wife and daughter were out of town when a drunk meth head tried to gain entrance into my house by kicking the front door down.

The first lesson was, call 911, report an attempted home invasion at your address, give them a brief description of yourself and HANG UP.

I stayed on the phone with dispatch the entire time this incident was taking place, giving them a running account of what was taking place.

Take cover and guard all entrances to your home. This could have been a diversion tactic and a second thug could be gaining entrance elsewhere.

Try, as best you can, to remain calm and think the situation thru. I made the decision to wait for the perpetrator to enter my house before firing. The door held and he fled when sheriff deputies arrived. I was within my right, in Texas, to shoot thru the door to stop the threat because I did fear for my life.

Do not leave your house and do not talk to law enforcement unless asked, and even then, do not explain your actions or thoughts. Keep your mouth shut and call a lawyer. DO NOT make a voluntary statement. Anything and everything you say WILL be used against you.

The warning that this dirtbag got, first, was a large male black lab going completely insane at the front door. I shouted that I called 911 and sheriff's were on the way. I never warned him that I was kneeling behind cover with a 1911 aimed at the front door.

The 911 dispatcher was on speaker on my phone this entire time telling me not to shoot and giving me a countdown of the officer's arrival. She was fully aware of the chaos and danger going on.

The officers pursued the fleeing criminal and did not return to my house after arresting him. I learned the next day that he crashed his car into a tree nearby, was intoxicated on alcohol and meth and (no surprise) had a lengthy criminal history.

Strange as it may sound, I was more worried about him kicking my door open and harming my dog than harming me! I was also concerned about getting a clear shot if my dog was attacking him upon entrance.

However, I was fully prepared to shoot this person, instantly, if my door flew open. I don't think I would have stopped shooting until the first magazine was empty and I had to reload. Shooting to "stop the threat" was most likely going to result in a fatality, in this scenario. I would, under no circumstances, fire a warning shot or shoot to wound.

My advice to everyone is, train by taking defensive and tactical shooting courses. I believe that a decade of IDPA competition shooting (slightly stressful) allowed me to stay somewhat calm during this incident.

God bless you if you ever have to deal with a situation that threatens you or your loved ones, but this is the reason we are armed and (hopefully) trained to deal with it.
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