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Home invasion, first hand account

This is a discussion on Home invasion, first hand account within the Gun Tactics forums, part of the Gun Forum category; In regard to the 'warn an intruder or not' thread I am sharing this first hand account with you. After two years this member on ...


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Old 11-20-2016, 06:51 PM   #1
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Home invasion, first hand account

In regard to the 'warn an intruder or not' thread I am sharing this first hand account with you. After two years this member on another forum feels he can finally share and has given permission to others to share it. Seems the case has finally come to the point to where he can talk about it publicly.

First hand account of an attempted kidnapping/home invasion/attack by a crazed person.
Quite gripping to read and he is quite eloquent in his account. A Pastor of all things. Gives much to think about as it IS a real first hand account of what happened. Not just keyboard tough talk.

Please read it. Think about it. Discuss it.

https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=689905
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Old 11-20-2016, 07:19 PM   #2
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7.62, thank you for sharing. My wife likes to sell stuff and have folks pick up the large objects from the house. I have always kept them outside and have at least 1 gun on me (.45) and 1 more just inside (usually an AR or shotgun). I fear an event like this happening. With all the drugs out there, with all the evil, you just never know.
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Old 11-20-2016, 07:19 PM   #3
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Very detailed account. The pastor has several lessons. I think I could add one and critique one.

First, I'd add that you never fire a "warning shot". It's wasting rounds that could be needed, plus that warning shot might go astray and cause unexpected damage--you're responsible for every round that leaves your gun.

Second, I'd say that safeties didn't cause him a problem, but they could cause someone a problem. He had the door between him and his assailant. That have him a few more seconds. If I have to draw from a holster and the threat is five feet away, I don't want a safety.

I don't want to sound like a Monday morning quarterback on these points. I'm very glad he was able to protect his wife.
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Old 11-20-2016, 07:41 PM   #4
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No questioning him at all as none of us know until we know. There may be folks here who have served throughout the decades and actually dealt death to people but I believe most are like him, myself and you. We carry and hope to never use it.
I do agree on the warning shot but can't say I still won't go that route should I find myself in some sort of situation. And I wonder if being a minister made him initially hesitate and fire the warning shot instead of Blam blam blam blam blam blam etc thru the door?
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Old 11-20-2016, 07:44 PM   #5
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This just reinforces my use of my Tavor as my HD weapon.
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Old 11-20-2016, 07:55 PM   #6
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Wow. Very scary. I hope to never have to deal with anything like that. Definitely can learn from his ordeal. I try and carry (or bring in the car) my EDC everywhere I go.
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Old 11-20-2016, 08:17 PM   #7
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Thank you for sharing this. Lots of good lessions here. A somewhat common them of stories like this what is exactly what the gentleman said as part of his lessons learned, and that is you shot more rounds than you think. Make sure you have enough rounds at home or while carrying.
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Old 11-20-2016, 08:35 PM   #8
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I own a lot of what my family calls "Dog Bullets" (heavy grain Hornady hallow points) for this type of scenario. I have had a meth head kick in my window and run, and before that a drunk try to head but his way through my steel door. After the drunk, I learned 3 big lessons.

#1- Get to know the officers who patrol your community. The gentleman in the above post was a pastor, he might have gotten benefit of the doubt without cameras. We normal blue collars might not. But if you build a good relationship with the cops in your community, I feel you will find things go smoother if this sort of thing happens.

#2- Get to know your neighbors. Let them get to see you as good people. In my case the guy tried to say we beat him, the neighbors seeing what happened, and complaining about the cops threatening us with charges the next day, may have been the ONLY thing standing between us and a court date. It also led to some complaints about how the officers behave back here. This led to a community relations program.

#3- Make lots of noise. This is what may have saved us from being charged in my scenario. The neighbors in both buildings were woken up and seen everything we did. Which was simply grab the guys hands and hold him still.
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Old 11-20-2016, 09:02 PM   #9
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7.62
Thanks for sharing this, I guess my response to this is training, training, training

It is proven that when you are in this type of situation you won't do what you want or what you have been told, you will only do what you have been trained to do. In fight or flight mode, we regress back to our animal selves, and only training, muscle memory is operational.

I am surprised that the pastor did as well as he did, considering all the mistakes he made, and not wanting to kill the suspect, which again is why we DO NOT SHOOT TO KILL, we shoot to stop the action, if the perpetrator dies as a result, that was not our intention.

There are reasons for this mindset, shooting to stop the threat is something mentally that we can handle, however shooting to kill someone is not.

Studies done in war time show that the vast majority of soldiers COULD NOT, shoot to kill the enemy, look it up, the willingness to kill is so foreign to us that it must be trained into us over and over.

warning shots, shooting legs, and he fired 8 rounds of 9mm hp, but his training was lacking. Shooting legs doesn't work, only center mass, which he did get one off, works. This is another example of 9mm not doing the job in non center mass areas (don't want to start a firestorm, but those are the facts), when someone is high, they don't feel pain like normal

I am glad that he and his wife survived, hope this POS, gets some serious jail time, and doesn't come after him again.
Just IMHO
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Old 11-20-2016, 09:51 PM   #10
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I'd guess everyone here has long ago made the decision, this is sort of preaching the choir. This is a cross-post:

Thank you for protecting your family, and sharing your story.

I think it brings home a lesson. When deciding to be responsible for your and your family's safety by arming yourself, CCW, home defense weapon, whatever, it's important to "sit down with yourself" and make that decision in your mind - "Am I willing to take someone's life to that end"? Delaying the decision to, "if and when it's ever necessary" can turn things badly, as any delay may potentially shift advantage to the bad guy. I'm thinking you solidly arrived at the decision to use deadly force during the fight. All well that end's well, as they say . . . and good!

Long ago (1971), an Oakland PD academy instructor asked if everyone in the class had made the decision they would kill someone if need be, that the time for thinking it through was right then, as there would likely be no time on the street for the luxury of deliberation as any hesitation could cost us or some other innocent their lives. I think most of us had long before thought it through, I know I had, still it was recognized as a potential impediment to quick and decisive decision making and it was acknowledged we needed to answer, validate, and compartmentalize that decision for ourselves and ahead of time.
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Old 11-21-2016, 07:24 AM   #11
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I read this linked thread a few days ago----having "been there, done that" its not an easy decision to make, that second guessing oneself that sets in the longer an encounter lasts. In my case the "mexican stand off" was going on, me perfectly content to let it proceed thinking the intruder would eventually stumble away. It was obvious he was jacked up on something and I didn't want to take his life without giving him the opportunity to retreat.

As it turned out the new wife unknowingly entered the scene where the intruder grabbed and held her, his .32 chrome plated revolver fully against her right temple. To this day I'll say his pulling the trigger was completely not his intention but it was a single fatal shot none the less. As she fell to the floor his facial expression told me it was accidental but at that point it didn't matter---he was still armed so it was necessary to take him out.

The only regret about that day is my initial hesitation---this was in a small Texas town in 1978, the intruder somewhat well known as a young man with drug problems, his family rock solid God-fearing hard working members of the town. (This was revealed to me during the after-action investigation.)

A question I ask any previous non-gun owner considering arming themselves is "what would your first reaction to an intruder assaulting you be?" Anything less than something to the effect an outrage and anger towards that intruder is akin to Bumper's training instructor's test. Pointing a loaded weapon at someone with the decision to shoot IF NECESSARY is paramount IMHO. Keeping in mind guns serve one major purpose, we who use them as hobbies or such know this; many, many new gun owners do not.

Thanks again for this link 7.62!
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Old 11-21-2016, 07:40 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid View Post
build a good relationship with the cops in your community
That idea died decades ago and it's one of the reason crime is out of control, that crime the FBI stats never show. At one time the cops had to live in the town or city they worked in, not anymore. And the only time I see the cops out of their vehicles is when they hand the traffic ticket over.

When I was growing up we knew them by first name, them days are long gone. And they have adopted a me against them attitude and if you happen to live in a depressed area due to your economics standing you'll be treated as if you a are criminal.

I'm not blaming them because I realize what they have to deal with and I realize as well they can't make those determinations out there of who is decent and who isn't.

But it hurts.

I've had to call the cops twice in the last 15 years, the first time down in South Texas after my vehicle was vandalized just to get a report for my insurance and his attitude towards me was I must have some enemies.

The second time was 2 years ago up in Maine when I heard my neighbor up above me at 1:00 in the afternoon screaming out her window for help, I didn't want to call, but I didn't know what else to do. Her boyfriend was beating her again. The cops show up and I get attitude.


In between that 15 years, again down in South Texas I get a knock on my door at 3:00 in the morning by the police. They had chased a drunk driver into the parking lot and he hit my car. They kept me outside for 45 minutes running my licence and insurance and then told me he was an illegal immigrant with no licence and so doubtful he had insurance, I had to ask them if I was excused to go back inside.

They didn't give a rat's a-- ! It's just a job to collect a pay check and get to retirement. They haven't been policing America for decades, they are now revenue generators for the cites and towns by writing tickets because we loss our tax base because we have no jobs.

We are screwed either way whether we have our gun rights or not because they are now letting the criminals sue you in civil court even when you are cleared by the D.A. Just another money making scheme for the legal system.

I'm glad I have gun rights, I hope I never have to use it. And if we ever do lose those gun rights we are really royally screwed.
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Old 11-21-2016, 07:52 AM   #13
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These are some hard core testimonies gentlemen. Thank you for sharing, it drives the argument deep and to the point.

I am sorry some of you had to live thru such horrible things.
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Old 11-21-2016, 08:25 AM   #14
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Out of his story jumped this, “What would have happened had you not been here to save me?”

Man, if that don't instill resolve, nothing will.
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Old 11-21-2016, 08:27 AM   #15
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Curious. Read the thread, tried the link to the original story and the link comes up with "not found" on the news website.

Google, using the pertinent information doesn't find the story anywhere, except on message boards.

Has anyone found a credible news story on this event? It is certainly plausible, and good for discussion....but would I would like to know if the story is factual.
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