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Use of Laser Devices on Firearms

This is a discussion on Use of Laser Devices on Firearms within the Gun Tactics forums, part of the Gun Forum category; I'm a big fan of CT laser grips. I had acquired a Kimber Crimson Ultra Carry and got my first taste and ended up buying ...


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Old 12-28-2012, 07:07 PM   #21
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I'm a big fan of CT laser grips. I had acquired a Kimber Crimson Ultra Carry and got my first taste and ended up buying a set for my Colt. My group size was cut in half at 30ft distances. I should mention that my old eyes have trouble seeing iron sights in the dim light of indoor ranges so the lasers made a huge difference. I have seen folks with the shakes as others here have described - I attributed it to too much gun for the shooter but I suppose it could be for other reasons. I don't shake as far as I can tell and have been told so by at least one casual observer. I never really mastered the double tap but squeeze off the next round as soon as the laser is back on target.

Someone above mentioned having to alter their grip when using a laser. I had not had that experience. If you are gripping the weapon properly, the laser is on automatically on my pistols.

I signed up for free batteries for life from CT. No one has mentioned that here yet. I get a new set every year when I request them. CT has super customer service by the way.
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:07 AM   #22
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I have the Sig CPL laser that came with my SP2022 9mm. I love it, it's a great laser and its compact and low profile, but I recently took it off because of something that I started thinking about and couldn't shake.

I use my 2022 for home defense, and in a night scenario in a dark room, I'm concerned that the laser would give away my position to the intruder. I feel like the element of surprise would be my biggest advantage against an intruder.

What do you guys think? Should I be concerned about this?
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:30 AM   #23
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Please feel free to add or correct me if am mistaken…

I recently received my issue of Combat Handguns and there is an article about “Justifying your Defense shots” As you know, many, many factors come into place once you make the conscious decision to draw and fire. One of these factors is “of course” what is behind your intended target REGARDLESS if your actions were 300% legitimate self-defense.

Albeit the attractive topic of the article, I have not read it yet. But my mind started running and I reach the following conclusion… I have two favorite handguns, my beloved P226 .40 and my SP2022 9mm (being 9mm) my preferred choice for carry and conceal. The P226 has a CLP-RM SigSauer red laser: CPL-RM Classic Pistol Laser

…which fits beautifully in the rail and is very small. I have no laser for the SP2022 mainly because it would be very difficult to fund a holster for it and the ones available are too bulky and affect the carrying conditions with my (DeSantis Speed Scabbard).

Solution: Crimson Trace for SP2022, I have set my mind to buy it and use it. To my understanding, anything you can use to help you in the acquisition of a target should be employed. Am not against lasers, and I believe in avoiding unnecessary liabilities specially when it comes to keep my family or myself safe.



JR7: A Crimson Trace laser can be blocked with your right index finger while in resting position when you are “searching” for threats.

Last edited by THE CONQUEROR; 02-20-2013 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:46 AM   #24
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I have had a LaserMax guide rod laser in my XD40sc for years. It is a great training tool, and with it being internal to the weapon, doesn't really have any downsides. I do almost all of my live-fire training without it, however, to prevent dependance. I chalk it up to the old saying "It's better to have and not need, than to need and not have."
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:59 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volzfan View Post
I have never shot a gun with a laser so I don't have personal experience. I have rarely seen anyone at the range that was using one either. The first time that I saw one being used was at an indoor range and the guy a couple of lanes over had one on his gun. He couldn't come close to holding it still and it was only about 20 ft. away. I thought that if I couldn't do any better than that then I wouldn't want one. Maybe I'll get a chance one day to shoot someones gun that has a laser and then I'll change my opinion and have to have one.
Same thing here... I finally saw someone using one... first off, the aim point was way off, and because he wasn't aiming properly, like you said, the little dot was going all over the place.

By aiming properly, I mean, the old fashioned way. He was aiming the dot, not the gun.

In that case, I was massively turned off by the laser...

Now, for a person without much experience... say a female who keeps a pistol with a laser built in to the grip in her purse... it's a good deal! They want and need that dot!
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:19 PM   #26
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Crimson Trace

Anyone able to get a hold of a 2013 Crimson Trace catalog, you will get a DVD inside that shows you all the benefits of lasers . After watching it you will probably go out and buy a laser for HD or practice.
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Old 04-25-2013, 05:33 PM   #27
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I bought a Crimson Trace for my P238. Custom leather holster so no issues there. I set a reminder on my calendar to contact CT annually for my free battery. So, batteries won't be an issue. It may not be pretty when shooting paper, but I plan on it being beneficial should I ever have to use it in a defense situation.
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Old 04-27-2013, 05:47 PM   #28
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Jeff, It is clear that you are stating your opinion about lasers and I don't want you to think I am flaming you here, I just want to share some counterpoints to a few of your thoughts (my comments in red).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff.Slim View Post
So I wanted to put up a brief thread about my opinion about the value of a laser sighting device (Crimson Trace, Lasermax, etc) on your home defense/carry weapon.

Let me start off by saying that I am a HUGE backer for use of a laser device on any weapon you are going to use for defense. I see the laser better suited to an offensive application, such as military, LEO or SWAT. Target acquisition becomes more difficult as the lighting becomes brighter and target gains distance. The dot, especially red, can be hard for the human eye to pick up. In a SWAT application, the shooter may have more time to setup and acquire the target. Why? Well my personal opinion is that it functions in multiple way, which I will cover in my "points" below. No matter your skill level a laser is one advantage you should not overlook. I personally carry a laser device on every firearm I use for defense, simply put its another tool in my bag of "tricks".

PRO's:

- Quicker point of aim- instead of having to bring the firearm up to eye level in order to engage a target accurately, you can quickly gain a point of aim with a laser device even from the position of removing it from the holster. We all know that the faster you can get on target the faster you can react to a threat of deter a threat. Repeating my earlier point here, the target acquisition can actually be more difficult as lighting and distance increase.

- Less thought process involved, instead of having to remember your four basic steps of acquiring a target: Pull, hand at chest, gun meets hand, forward extension, you can again reach POA faster (see point 1) You actually add a step here, you have to make certain the laser is activated. Some of the CT have a momentary switch which is activated by the finger adjacent to your trigger finger. I find this fine motor skill to be very challenging in high stress situations.

- Low light condition advantage, giving you a clear POA in low light conditions Yes, the dot does help illuminate the POA, however, the laser will also create a light path back to your location, providing a beacon for your adversary, should there be any particulates (dust, smoke, etc) in the air, which will be very likely in the situations we are discussing here.

- Decision time for your attacker, when an attacker see's a laser on there chest/body and see that laser coming from you it will mentally play with your attacker into quickly deciding if they want to continue there course of action or quickly break off from there attack. If I am in a life threatening situation, one of the very last places I will ever consider looking is at my chest. The likelihood of your adversary being aware of this dot on his/her person is almost nonexistent.

-Stress shooting, alot of people that carry aren't trained completely or fully in the art of high stress life/death situations, and only having to worry about getting a "dot" on a target instead of holding sight picture can help the defender feel more comfortable with the situation at hand, and also goes back to point #1. One situation I can see that the laser would could provide an advantage is in an unconventional firing stance/position. Let's say you are crouched down behind the last row of seats in a movie theatre as concealment. Due to physical space constraints, you are unable to get the sights in line between your target and your eyes. Holding the handgun off to the side of the seats, you will be able to find the POA in this unconventional position much more readily.

CON's

-Price, while you can't put a price on your life, property or loved ones, I do understand that not everyone can afford a $300(average) system to enhance there firearm. Not asking you to fore-go your mortgage, insurance, etc in order to finance a laser device. But if you can find a way, buy it. I don't like to skimp on cost when the lives of loved ones are involved and will gladly spend the money if the device fits into my scheme/plan/training.

-Concealment, most laser pistol grips add some width to your firearm, so again selection of a firearm, or holster is key in concealment.

- Holster Compatibility, devices other than Crimson Trace and Laser Max (rail mounted devices) can cause a problem with finding a proper holster. If you are going to use a flashlight/laser device that mounts to your rail, make sure you pick a firearm that has holsters for attachments readily available. Most custom holster manufacturers will make a holster to accommodate most models of handguns with most WML's and lasers. And these holsters will not necessarily break the bank!

-Batteries, we all know anything with batteries requires you to remember when to change them. My recommendation is to change your batteries every 6 months to a year. Yes shelf life and life of battery are longer, but do you really want to chance it not working? I personally rotate my Crimson Trace batteries every three months, but I drill with my firearm daily, and shoot with it weekly.

Adding a laser device is a personal choice, but one that should not be overlooked. Any advantage you can give yourself is one less advantage an attacker has.

*The information I give here is opinion only, it is not legal information given to you, user is responsible for safe use,storage and operation of firearms, and needs to know all local, state and federal laws in regards to firearms in this area. If you are unsure of anything please consult your local police department or local instructor for more information. This is opinion based information only.
My personal preference is to mount a red dot onto my handgun. I have a Trijicon RMR mounted on one handgun and a Burris FastFire III on another. I have IWB holsters that support each of these devices. I find the advantages of the red dot falls more inline with the advantages you note, such as quicker target acquisition, as the dot is ALWAYS in the same location relative to the gun, like the sights, and you don't have to scan and waste time searching for it. Between the two, I prefer immensely the Trijicon for a couple reasons. One, it is always on and has a ridiculous battery life, something in the range of 3 to 5 years. The Burris has a switch that has to be flipped to turn on. If I am carrying the gun with this red dot, I turn it on when it goes into the holster, but there is a chance it may go off. And to counter the eventuality of the batteries failing, both handguns have suppressor night sights mounted, again Trijicons, cowitnessed to the red dot. Another benefit of the Trijicon over the Burris is the durability. The Trijicon can literally be hammered on and still function, the Burris, not so much.

Again, like yours, these are my opinions. I just think that the red dot better fulfills the advantages you articulated for the laser. They also emphasize one of the cons you mentioned, as their cost can be quite high, especially when you consider the cost of mounting the devices to your slide, with milling, drilling, tapping or what ever other operations may be required.

YMMV, but I wanted to share a counterpoint to your observations.

Last edited by Malicious Compliance; 04-27-2013 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 04-27-2013, 05:56 PM   #29
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Personally I perfer the Viridian X5L , have 2 LOL , can't understand the guy @ the range having MORE than 1" seperation on placement but just goes 2 show PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE !! Which is something U have 2 do 2 B comfortable with it ! MOST R not ! Once again any 1 can let U know what they use, it's up 2 U 2 chose, Good Luck as any choice is a good 1 !!!!!
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:00 PM   #30
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Re: Use of Laser Devices on Firearms

Imo, every carry weapon should have one, but train for when they fail to work too.

The advantages to a quality laser are many.

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Old 04-27-2013, 07:19 PM   #31
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I trained for way too many years without a Laser that it would not be benmeficial to try and change. It's been proven that most people REVERT to thier original training when confronted with a desparate situation. I'm not knocking them by any means but I've practiced alot of instinct shooting at close range and know my capabilities.
Just staying proficient in what I know works for me.


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- Rosie O'Donnell (At about the time she said this, Rosie engaged the services of a bodyguard who applied for a gun permit.)
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