Jeff.Slim

So I wanted to put up a brief thread about my opinion about the value of a laser sighting device (Crimson Trace, Lasermax, etc) on your home defense/carry weapon.



Let me start off by saying that I am a HUGE backer for use of a laser device on any weapon you are going to use for defense. Why? Well my personal opinion is that it functions in multiple way, which I will cover in my "points" below. No matter your skill level a laser is one advantage you should not overlook. I personally carry a laser device on every firearm I use for defense, simply put its another tool in my bag of "tricks".



PRO's:



- Quicker point of aim- instead of having to bring the firearm up to eye level in order to engage a target accurately, you can quickly gain a point of aim with a laser device even from the position of removing it from the holster. We all know that the faster you can get on target the faster you can react to a threat of deter a threat.



- Less thought process involved, instead of having to remember your four basic steps of acquiring a target: Pull, hand at chest, gun meets hand, forward extension, you can again reach POA faster (see point 1)



- Low light condition advantage, giving you a clear POA in low light conditions



- Decision time for your attacker, when an attacker see's a laser on there chest/body and see that laser coming from you it will mentally play with your attacker into quickly deciding if they want to continue there course of action or quickly break off from there attack.



-Stress shooting, alot of people that carry aren't trained completely or fully in the art of high stress life/death situations, and only having to worry about getting a "dot" on a target instead of holding sight picture can help the defender feel more comfortable with the situation at hand, and also goes back to point #1.





CON's



-Price, while you can't put a price on your life, property or loved ones, I do understand that not everyone can afford a $300(average) system to enhance there firearm. Not asking you to fore-go your mortgage, insurance, etc in order to finance a laser device. But if you can find a way, buy it.



-Concealment, most laser pistol grips add some width to your firearm, so again selection of a firearm, or holster is key in concealment.



- Holster Compatibility, devices other than Crimson Trace and Laser Max (rail mounted devices) can cause a problem with finding a proper holster. If you are going to use a flashlight/laser device that mounts to your rail, make sure you pick a firearm that has holsters for attachments readily available.



-Batteries, we all know anything with batteries requires you to remember when to change them. My recommendation is to change your batteries every 6 months to a year. Yes shelf life and life of battery are longer, but do you really want to chance it not working? I personally rotate my Crimson Trace batteries every three months, but I drill with my firearm daily, and shoot with it weekly.





Adding a laser device is a personal choice, but one that should not be overlooked. Any advantage you can give yourself is one less advantage an attacker has.





*The information I give here is opinion only, it is not legal information given to you, user is responsible for safe use,storage and operation of firearms, and needs to know all local, state and federal laws in regards to firearms in this area. If you are unsure of anything please consult your local police department or local instructor for more information. This is opinion based information only.

Badger

Jeff, do you have a favorite laser device, or rotate between several. I'm thinking about a light/laser combo...but not in the near future.

Volzfan

I have never shot a gun with a laser so I don't have personal experience. I have rarely seen anyone at the range that was using one either. The first time that I saw one being used was at an indoor range and the guy a couple of lanes over had one on his gun. He couldn't come close to holding it still and it was only about 20 ft. away. I thought that if I couldn't do any better than that then I wouldn't want one. Maybe I'll get a chance one day to shoot someones gun that has a laser and then I'll change my opinion and have to have one.

Jeff.Slim

I use CTs on everything, that way i have no holster issues.



And Volzfan ---- If the goal is to hit a 10" plate at 7 yards (at least in oregon, legal engagement range is 21 feet), who cares if it "wobbles" an inch. As long as the laser is on the "plate" when you pull the trigger thats were its going to hit.

Volzfan

Yeah I understand that but it was just distracting for me and I was only watching him. That was the first time I had seen one being used and I guess that I wasn't expecting that much movement from one. He had a good bit more movement than an inch. That's why I want to try one for myself. I think that I could get used to them with a bit of practice.

360glitch

Engagement range?



Loving Mississippi gun laws more each day that passes by.

Volzfan

Tennessee doesn't have that either. I would sure hate to have to worry about whether an attacker was inside or outside the legal range to defend my life.

360glitch

SIG on one hip, measuring tape on the other.







Sorry Jeff.

Jeff.Slim

ahhh its all good... it is the law, but if you are "engaged" with gunfire, distance goes out the window.

sigp229r 

Here is my opinion on laser devices...



I find it quite difficult to keep that red dot steady on the target. My concentration when using that laser is to keep the red dot in one place long enough to discharge a round, and repeat it 4 more times to get a nice tight grouping. Because my concentration is mainly on keeping the red dot steady, the rest of my shooting controls diminish resulting in a less than desirable 5 shot grouping ( I do much better with the iron sights). However, from an intimidation standpoint, I think it is an outstanding accessory to have handy. I have a Crimson Trace.

BubbaT

I'm not a big fan on laser devices on handguns and have never shot a long gun with one. It's probably been over 15yrs since I tried one, That dot moved around, like I was shaking like a hooker in church, couldn't get it to stay were I wanted my shot to go, turn me off on them and have never tried one since.

360glitch

I've never shot a gun with a laser on it but I have had one in my hands. A laser might not be the best for shooting at the bulls-eye but in a self defense situation it sounds like it could not hurt to have one when you are firing at a human sized target.

Jim-Bob

Distance Between Victim Officer and Offender, 1991-2000

50% (303) of officers slain (601) were within 5’ of their assailants, while 71% (424) were within 10’





Civilians numbers should mirror these results. All my practice is done between 5 & 25 feet max. Rapid fire (double & triple taps) usually at standard K-5 targets and while moving. Most is done

point & point shoulder; with tuck point at close range. In the stress of combat you shoot the way you train. I feel a high comfort level sans Laser, others swear by them. Bottom line is whatever you are most comfortable taking to defend your life or someone else's. Above all be safe & ready to react quickly.

Doug Clark

I’m a proponent of lasers and own six of them (5 Crimson, 1 Viridian green) on various carry guns. When it comes to quick target acquisition, particularly in low light settings, lasers are paramount. It’s also allows you to expose less of yourself in barricade type of shooting.



With regard to the laser dot shaking on the target, it’s just an indication what the shooters hand is doing regardless if the gun has a laser or not. In my opinion, just for that very reason, lasers are a valuable tool for dry fire practice. It also allows me to see how much I’m moving in a particular direction on trigger pull. Another great laser dry fire practice is to move while trying to acquisition a static or moving target.



In the combat accuracy courses I participate in, we start out with a timed, 5 – spot warm-up drill. Without fail, I’ll always shoot faster and with greater accuracy with the laser than without it.



All that being said, I’ll shoot 50% of the time with out it just so I’m not totally dependent on a device that could fail.



Lasers work extremely well for me, but at the end of the day, it depends on a shooters preference.

Reliable

I use the Crimson Trace grips on my at the ready weapon. 95% of the time I practice witout the laser being on at all, one needs to be able to handle the pistol using the sights. My main reason for the laser is in the event I don't have my glasses on. I may not be able to see the sights but I can see where the dot is located. Deterance is also a huge asset.

Justin Burns

Lol to the tape measure comment. Good one.



The only I want to add here is that you should never expect your hands to be like a lead sled. The practice comes in recognizing your natural movement and using that to help fire, return to target and fire again. As always, practice makes perfect. But no one should look at their front sight post, or a laser point, and expect no movement. The only guns that fire with no movement are made in Hollywood California.



My issue with lasers is when I am target shooting. It has to do with the way you line up your sight. When shooting without a laser, I focus about 70% on the front sight post as I bring the target into frame.. letting my natural breathing rhythm, gravity or whatever help bring the target into my sights. With lasers I focus 100% on the target, looking for the same fundamentals.. which usually takes me a second (+) longer to engage. When training in moving scenarios, or under duress or fatigue, a laser helps me find and hold my target as I then focus on aligning my sight picture.. assuming I have the time. Acquiring an aimpoint is much, much easier with a laser. Then its a matter of whether or not you shoot properly or smartly. Two different things IMO.



Also, I hadn't considered the glasses/no glasses issue one member raised. Makes perfect sense.

JackSauer

I think it's been touched on in this thread BUT



I primarily see Weapon-mounted lasers being most effective for the average civilian as a training tool, in the form of dry-fire and stance practice to keep that dot steady on target.



My first time out with a laser I realized that it was not simple point-and-shoot--my shots were all over the place. The fundamentals of stable stance and smooth trigger press are still crucial. After I understood that concept however, I was punching sections out of the paper targets.



There is value in having a weapon light / laser, especially in a home defense situation.

txshurricane

I personally don't care for lasers. Which is not to say I wouldn't install Crimson Trace grips if I were to come by some. I just would rather not rely on a laser, and I see them as a quick way to lose the element of surprise. Not to mention the fact that most lasers somehow affect your grip.

gwgw60

I just installed a CT laser on my Ruger SP101 357 magnum snuby. I was having trouble seeing the stock sights and never developing a good point of aim. Since getting the laser, my defensive groups are getting better and I'm starting to put shots where I want, even with the laser off. It's also helping me with my dry fire practice with grip and trigger control.



I haven't put laser on my SIG P226; the sights are much better and I don't have the same sight picture issues as with the revolver. But I've become an overall laser advocate now now. Maybe sometime down the line on the budget goals I will do this.

Bricktop

Manventureoutpost sells Crimson Trace lasers cheaper than anyone on the net. I just purchased my third set of CT laser grips for a SP2022 I am expecting this week for $237. That is manventure's shipped price and that is about the price you'll pay for a P229, P239, etc, laser. Some of the ones for Glocks, XD's, etc, are even cheaper. Plus CT has a $50 rebate going on right now so my price was under $200 shipped once I get my rebate check. I had an old set of CT's for my 229 that were right hand only (activation only on one side of the grip) that I sold and picked up a front activation model a month ago and got my check from CT a week ago. Same thing, with rebate they were under $200 and I sold my old CT's for nearly as much.



-

Not with Sigs.



Not with Sigs.







I had the same set of batteries in my CT's for the 229 for YEARS with no dimming to my eyes. (20/20 vision). If you sit in your house and play with laser constantly you might need to change them once a year at best but my last set lasted years.



A laser is an excellent training device at the range and at night there is no substitute. They trump night sights by a very large margin. I have CT's on all three of my pistols and if CT doesn't make a laser for it I don't want it. I edc 365 and a bunch of that is at night. I've sighted all my CT's in at 15 yards and where the red dot appears a hole suddenly appears every time. I've shot 50+ yards with them at a family member's ranch, at dusk. They are worth every single penny they cost. You don't know until you try a set of them. If you do you'll want them on every pistol you own.



If you have any interest manventure + CT's rebate right now is hard to beat.