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Perps wearing body armor.

This is a discussion on Perps wearing body armor. within the Gun Tactics forums, part of the Gun Forum category; Originally Posted by tdubya Last week, two people I know (co-workers/friends of my next door neighbor) were victims of home invasion. Two perps, a male ...


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Old 11-26-2016, 11:05 PM   #31
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Last week, two people I know (co-workers/friends of my next door neighbor) were victims of home invasion. Two perps, a male and a female, kicked in their front door and robbed them at gunpoint. The perps were wearing body armor. So, my tactical related question is do y'all practice shooting higher up as well as COM?
As Clint Smith said, shoot 'em in the crotch, as soon as your muzzle clears it's holster. Another way to look at it, is to ride the shots up, from pelvis to thoracic triangle, and ocular cavity/corpus callosum, which is a high probability of a kill-shot... Pelvis/crotch, is like cutting the strings on a dummy- mobility is suddenly out of the picture, as perp, literally, has no standing... Thoracic triangle takes out heart, lungs, esophagus, with massive blood loss from veins, arteries, and respiratory functions. Lastly, if you take out the brain stem, or sever/severely damage the spine, you've incapacitated/terminated the subject...

Never again, go center of mass... If just one perp, take out their pelvis, thoracic triangle, then head... Those are the least protected...

GBY&Y's

Maranatha

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Old 11-27-2016, 12:01 AM   #32
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When I used to teach, I specialized in training women to properly use firearms. Among other things, "Use a Revolver. It has a simpler manual of arms, and nothing to get in the way of your use". When S&W started with the "Safety Key", I encouraged people to remove if possible or buy a used Colt. Was almost fired for saying that, but didn't care.

I also said "Remember, shoot them from the Navel to the Knees."
It worked for my students. 3 of them had to use it, and one of them told me the Perp Survived.
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Old 11-27-2016, 03:10 AM   #33
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Did an all day training class yesterday and they had a specific body armor drill. Two to body mass and one to head or pelvic area if needed. First two more than likely point shots and third aimed. Very enjoyable class. First of 4 levels of defensive handgun courses they offer.
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Old 11-27-2016, 03:28 AM   #34
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This is also why I believe have a a mean dog, that doesnt bark.. They fear nothing. Someone comes in, they attack and very quickly.
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Old 11-27-2016, 06:23 AM   #35
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Last week, two people I know (co-workers/friends of my next door neighbor) were victims of home invasion. Two perps, a male and a female, kicked in their front door and robbed them at gunpoint. The perps were wearing body armor. So, my tactical related question is do y'all practice shooting higher up as well as COM?
So sorry about your friends, something like this can and probably is life-changing, not for the better either.

Whenever I hear of a home invasion I'm always curious as to the circumstances surrounding it. What is the crime statistics of their home's area, did they know the perps and/or why did these perps choose that particular home to invade?

I've always thought there is something high-value, known or assumed, inside they're coming after. Could be cash, art, drugs etc etc---something attracts them. Locally there was a "gang" of three or four preying mostly on elderly victims living in a certain area, one somewhat known to be a bit "rough", once economically depressed but on the up-tick to more toney residents.

I wonder if knowing the "why" can we be better prepared to prevent these sorts of things, maybe become better able to fend them off if it does happen more randomly?

Then again I'm shopping for Mossberg 930's with magazine extensions----I hear the right loads can literally stop a body-armored perp "dead in their tracks" ?
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Old 11-27-2016, 07:55 AM   #36
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Whenever I hear of a home invasion I'm always curious as to the circumstances surrounding it. What is the crime statistics of their home's area, did they know the perps and/or why did these perps choose that particular home to invade?

I wonder if knowing the "why" can we be better prepared to prevent these sorts of things, maybe become better able to fend them off if it does happen more randomly?
the answer to the "Why" is geography, and convenience. Most of the Schmo's who do this don't have any idea other then a rumor of something valuable being there. They cannot (usually) travel to outer most areas so they go to the most nearby affluent neighborhood. "Where's your money" is their usual question.

Once you realize this, the motive is your APPEARENCE of money, you can work on a worthwhile defense strategy.

Like Shoot em between the naval and the knees when they start coming your way.
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Old 11-27-2016, 08:03 AM   #37
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Get a dog. Instead of Nixon, use Obama
https://youtu.be/Di3bqgAEoxY
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Old 11-27-2016, 04:22 PM   #38
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Buckshot to the lower body/legs. Once he/she is immobilized you can aim all you want if you still have to.
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:45 AM   #39
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The pelvic region is a good place to shoot also.
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Old 11-29-2016, 04:01 AM   #40
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Buckshot to the lower body/legs. Once he/she is immobilized you can aim all you want if you still have to.
This could be a legally dangerous tactic IF you're advocating follow up shots after the threat is neutralized. I myself would triple tap someone in as quickly as possible. If there are ear witnesses and they notice a long gap between shots that would very very well work against a HD shooting.
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Old 11-29-2016, 04:08 AM   #41
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the answer to the "Why" is geography, and convenience. Most of the Schmo's who do this don't have any idea other then a rumor of something valuable being there. They cannot (usually) travel to outer most areas so they go to the most nearby affluent neighborhood. "Where's your money" is their usual question.

Once you realize this, the motive is your APPEARENCE of money, you can work on a worthwhile defense strategy.

Like Shoot em between the naval and the knees when they start coming your way.
As I recall a few home invasions here locally its somewhat rare they're happening close to the perp's homes. It does seem ripping off a known drug house is a big reason but those instances where it almost seems like a targeted invasion the perp's have undoubtedly cased the home long before the attack. In that case they're fully convinced something valuable can be had coupled with looking for patterns of behavior and vulnerabilities.

Interesting topic to ponder I think------it goes through my mind quite a lot these days.
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Old 12-02-2016, 12:17 AM   #42
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My question is what type of body armor did they wear? Or was it a tac vest you can get on amazon that the people thought was body armor.

And here is the scarier question. If they are wearing body armor- what type of ammo do they have in their guns? Whats illegal for you or me, isn't that hard for them to get their mitts on.

Body armor is beatable. It just depends on how big your piggy bank is, and how good your lawyer is.

But the best way is learn failure drills, practice them.
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Old 12-03-2016, 04:39 PM   #43
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This is what I have for my P226 TACOPS... I have ten magazines, all 20rd Mec-Gar AFC magazines. Eight are loaded with Liberty Civil Defense, while the remaining two magazines are loaded with FSM Defense ammo... I don't worry about auto glass, sheet metal, barriers, or much else... If it's more resistant than what I have, what little guile, deceit, and mobility are all I have left...

For use against Class IIa body armor, out of 9mm pistols... Exquisite accuracy, reliability, and performance. Use liberally to the pelvic area, thoracic triangle, and chin-up...

Liberty Ammunition Civil Defense 9MM
9mm Ammo Lead Free - Liberty Ammunition

9MM Luger Fort DefenseŽ Handgun Ammo
Fort Scott Munitions 000054

https://www.velocitytactics.com/prod...nt=20086944134

GBY&Y's

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Correction... Liberty 50gr. 9mm Civil Defense defeats Class IIIa armor, not just II, IIa, or III armor... Think of it as a great Christmas stocking stuffer...
C49

Last edited by Crusader1949; 12-06-2016 at 01:15 PM. Reason: Correction...
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:38 PM   #44
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Liberty 50gr. 9mm Civil Defense - “This bullet is certified by the State of California for non-game hunting.”

I think we'd know what to use it against...
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Old 02-04-2017, 02:44 PM   #45
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Have not read every one of the responses. Hope this is not something all ready said. Retired from police dept. 24 years ago. Don't know what they are teaching up there in Maryland these days. What was being taught to us then was, fire two into center of mass. If it does not drop the suspect. Next shot to the head. What we were doing was "triple taps".
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