OC'ing instructor winds up having to use it. - SIG Talk
SIG Talk Gun Forum

OC'ing instructor winds up having to use it.

This is a discussion on OC'ing instructor winds up having to use it. within the Gun Tactics forums, part of the Gun Forum category; I haven't seen this video before. Should be good for a bit of discussion. OC'ing-Open Carrying instructor in a convenience store winds up in the ...


Go Back   SIG Talk > Gun Forum > Gun Tactics


Gun Tactics Gun Tactics Forum - Share and learn about firearm related tactics and techniques

Like Tree30Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-14-2016, 06:43 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
7.62Kolectr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: on guard......
Posts: 2,209
OC'ing instructor winds up having to use it.

I haven't seen this video before. Should be good for a bit of discussion.

OC'ing-Open Carrying instructor in a convenience store winds up in the middle of an irate whacko and tne owner. No sound so we don't know what was really said. But either the instructor goes outside to get to his car as the narrator to video thinks or goes to get license plate number for the cops because the whacko was leaving. But for whatever reason the whacko gets out and confronts the carrier. Carrier wisely keeps his distance and retreats into the store. As narrator points out by the time he is back in the store he has his gun drawn. Keeps backing up and up until he cannot go any further, guy has gotten physical with him and is now got him cornered. So our carrier takes aim and fires one shot CoM.

Observations and questions?

http://youtu.be/LjqtB9UXZpI
Narrator makes a few good points. Why follow the guy outside?
For me, as narrator says I'm not sure I would have drawn my gun so soon because as we see not only is he limited to one hand now. But he also has to keep proper angle on bad guy so as to protect his gun. Step in strong Y hand to the throat while you are legging behind him for the toss to the ground he could have done if he did not have gun in hand.
Finally backed into a corner he fires one round dead center. Pay close attn to the fact it basically had NO immediate effect on the guy. He keeps fighting with the guy for a few seconds afterward. If bad guy had a weapon it may not have gone well for the good guy. Why fire one? Double tap to CoM and one more to the head or simply fill his chest full of rounds until he STOPS. He was even close enough I think that he could have possibly made his initial shot right to the guys forehead. But as we see this guy fires one round maybe thinking it was gonna immediately stop the guy. But it didn't. Lots of big thick liquor bottles there. Bad guy grabs a fifth of JD and whacks him once over the head it could have been the end of our good guy.
Also while it seems he really didn't have much choice as to when to fire or what angle to do it at notice store clerk is directly behind bad guy when he gets shot. A pass thru or miss may not have gone too well for him.

Either way it was ruled justified. Do you think it is or he just got lucky with the ruling?

But I'm curious to see what others thoughts are on the situation.

Followed the guy outside or was he simply leaving same time and BG confronted him?
When would you have drawn IF you decided to do?
Or are some of you experienced enough in H2H to be able to disable this Dbag without having to shoot him?
One round or several CoM?
Reach up and put it to his forehead for a cranial shot?

Last edited by 7.62Kolectr; 08-15-2016 at 08:19 AM.
7.62Kolectr is offline  
Register

Welcome to the SIG Talk Forum dedicated to SIG Sauer Pistols and SIG Sauer Rifles.

We welcome everyone and the community is free to join so register today and become part of the SIG Talk Forum!

Old 08-14-2016, 07:00 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
whitewabit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 711
No video to watch so can't comment on the episode ..

Last edited by whitewabit; 08-14-2016 at 07:02 PM.
whitewabit is offline  
Old 08-14-2016, 07:07 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
7.62Kolectr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: on guard......
Posts: 2,209
It's right in the middle of my post? Just checked it? Works fine.
7.62Kolectr is offline  
 
Old 08-14-2016, 07:49 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
whitewabit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 711
played the 2nd time I tried ..

I don't think I would have followed the man outside and would have probably moved away toward the back of the store before that when he tried to get the guy involved at the counter .. let the clerk call the police .. I'm disabled and use O2 so I would have tried to avoid any confrontation in the first place !! but due to my disability I wouldn't have allowed it to proceed as far as it did .. his actions would have probably knocked me down and I wouldn't allow that to happen !!

several gaps in the tap where we don't see anything .. There is 2 lengthy gaps of maybe 10 seconds or more when they both went outside and then came back inside we don't see so .. we don't see why or when he pulled his weapon .. he did keep it down so the guy wasn't able to grab it but he could have easily hit him with a bottle and disarmed him as he was larger framed and apparently on something or drinking .. his actions were erratic .. that could have been very bad for everyone in the store if he had gotten ahold of the pistol ..

Was surprised he only fired once round especially him being an instructor according to the video .. may have been because the clerk was behind him ?? I have been train to shoot till the threat was stopped so multiple shots would have been fired till he wasn't a threat .. it took several seconds before he realized he had been shot and was in pain enough to take him to his knees .. as close as they were I'm not sure if he had room to raise his pistol head high for a head shot without putting it within the BG 's reach

Would really like to have the sound recording from the tape .. but appears overall he was justified and the guy shot was lucky he wasn't killed !! looks like he was hit in the stomach or abdomen and the clerk was lucky that what ever ammunition the guy had worked properly and didn't over penetrate and him being shot also ..
Crusader1949 likes this.
whitewabit is offline  
Old 08-14-2016, 07:55 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
whitewabit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 711
If the BG would have rushed the guy with the gun as close as they were he might have gained control without a shot being fired at him !! thankfully that didn't happen !!

Would like to know what led up to all of this .. what was said or done to lite the fuse in the very beginning ??
Crusader1949 likes this.
whitewabit is offline  
Old 08-15-2016, 03:32 AM   #6
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
Redfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,260
The threat was over. He started it all over again by going out to get the individuals license plate number. All he had to do was stay in the store until the individual left the area. He put everyone in the store in danger when he drew the guy back inside. The clerk should have locked the door as soon as the guy walked out and kept everyone inside.
Redfish is offline  
Old 08-15-2016, 06:08 AM   #7
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Columbia, MO
Posts: 211
Following the guy outside...fundamental strategic and tactical error.

It appears to me that he went outside to get his license plate number.

Last edited by LevineII; 08-15-2016 at 06:10 AM.
LevineII is offline  
Old 08-15-2016, 06:45 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
MCX300BLKSBR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Florida
Posts: 720
Link not working for me either
MCX300BLKSBR is offline  
Old 08-15-2016, 06:50 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
bronicabill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Madison, AL
Posts: 2,283
IF he went outside to get the plate numbers... bad mistake! If he was simply trying to go to his car and got cut off by the BG, still a tactical error as he should have waited for the BG to leave the parking lot first.

Store clerk should have locked the front door IF POSSIBLE and he had time to do so upon seeing BG returning, but we don't know that the clerk had keys readily available; it doesn't always work that way in convenience stores!

So... lots of Monday-morning quarter-backing here on a Monday morning. Glad I found this post this morning as I wouldn't have been able to respond this afternoon or tomorrow since it wouldn't have been Monday any more!
Esquire likes this.
bronicabill is offline  
Old 08-15-2016, 07:18 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
bronicabill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Madison, AL
Posts: 2,283
Sig-Talk locked up while I was trying to complete my post, so let me add this...

I think it was a VERY bad move to fire the shot when he did, considering the clerk was directly behind BG... and only one shot? Where's the double-tap we're all supposedly trained to fire? Just not sure about that move whatsoever, and what was going on inside the instructor's head when he made the shot. Just glad he wasn't prosecuted and nobody got hurt but BG...
bronicabill is offline  
Old 08-15-2016, 07:20 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Flash LB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Gilbert Arizona
Posts: 6,210
Bill, there are a lot of Instructors out there who don't know which way is up and he's just one more of them.

He got lucky.
Flash LB is offline  
Old 08-15-2016, 07:20 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
haldir's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Michiana
Posts: 2,496
If you click on YouTube, it will take you to the video.

OP, if you edit your original post and take out the s in https:, I think it will work for everyone.
haldir is offline  
Old 08-15-2016, 08:07 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
bumper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Minden, NV
Posts: 3,650
If the good guy had pepper spray, it would have give him an intermediate step rather than going directly to deadly force (noting that pepper spray doesn't always work).

The only logic path I can see to arrive at deeming this a justified shooting is the good guy has to prevent the bad guy from taking his gun and using it on him. I'm guessing this is what the DA used in reaching his decision. Depending on the DA, this might not have gone so well for the shooter.
LevineII and PresidentSkroob like this.
bumper is online now  
Old 08-15-2016, 08:14 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
MCX300BLKSBR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Florida
Posts: 720
OC instructor should have kept his weapon holstered. The second the BG grabbed his shirt, OC guy should have punched him in his face until the BG stopped posing a threat. I would much rather have to answer for why I knocked someone out, than why I shot someone.
TAPnRACK01 and Esquire like this.
MCX300BLKSBR is offline  
Old 08-15-2016, 08:18 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
7.62Kolectr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: on guard......
Posts: 2,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by haldir View Post
If you click on YouTube, it will take you to the video.

OP, if you edit your original post and take out the s in https:, I think it will work for everyone.

http://youtu.be/LjqtB9UXZpI
Ok done. I edited the op as well.
7.62Kolectr is offline  
Reply

  SIG Talk > Gun Forum > Gun Tactics

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Top Gun Sites Top Sites List

Powered by vBulletin 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
Copyright © 2010 - 2017 SIG Talk. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.SIG Talk is a SIG Sauer Firearms enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent SIG Sauer, Inc. of Exeter, NH.