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This is a discussion on Saint...Colt...Bcm within the Guns forums, part of the Gun Forum category; Originally Posted by CodeSection Came across a very detailed video on building an AR-15..... still watching. While calling around searching for a BCM, I happened ...


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Old 04-17-2017, 04:18 PM   #46
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Came across a very detailed video on building an AR-15..... still watching.

While calling around searching for a BCM, I happened to call a LGS that it's sister company is Sionics Weapon Systems. After some research, I see they supply many PDs and SDs their AR-15.

Does anyone own a Sionic? They use NP3 coating on their BCG. I read a lot of positive posts and articles on NP3 stating it is superior to chrome lining. So, if that is true, how come BCM and DD doesn't use it?
The special coatings don't really do much, and sometimes they fail and flake off. It's cool looking, but not really any better. The one thing they do well is cleaning, much easier to clean...not much more than just wiping them off.

BCM and DD BCGs are top tier and they don't need to add special coatings to sell. BCM would charge $270 instead of $170 if they coated them.

Last edited by Czechvar; 04-17-2017 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 04-17-2017, 05:37 PM   #47
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The special coatings don't really do much, and sometimes they fail and flake off. It's cool looking, but not really any better. The one thing they do well is cleaning, much easier to clean...not much more than just wiping them off.

BCM and DD BCGs are top tier and they don't need to add special coatings to sell. BCM would charge $270 instead of $170 if they coated them.
To be clear on this, BCM, Colt, DD BCGs are parkerized per the TDP. That coating has worked just fine for decades.
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Old 04-20-2017, 08:40 PM   #48
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Disillusioned....confused

I have been exchanging emails with BCM since they are not accepting phone calls. They have been helpful in answering my questions and educating.

However, their latest answer to my latest email questioning why there were various models of the same gun (BCM RECCE-16 KMR-A 750-790 vs BCM RECCE-16 KMR-A BFH GOVT 5.56 750-790) took me by surprise. Their response was...

"Placing one of our upper receiver groups onto one of our lower receiver groups is completely acceptable. This gives our dealers and distributors the ability to offer different complete rifle configurations that we do not currently ship out as complete rifles. They can order a complete upper receiver group configuration and use it in conjunction with a lower receiver group to offer as a complete weapon system to a customer that may not want to purchase the upper and lower individually."

So, is this a regular practice in the industry that a rifle ordered could be assembled by the dealer you ordered from or be assembled by the distributor and not from the company itself? It just doesn't sound right and maybe a little misleading for the consumer.

I realize there are other industries (beer, soda, ec.) that have distributions centers that "make" the end product. But rifles, really?

At this point, I am disillusioned or maybe I was just ignorant to the industry and their standards.

Can anyone confirm this is normal with all companies?

Last edited by CodeSection; 04-20-2017 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:40 PM   #49
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Well, I guess I have a lot to learn. For some reason, I thought BCM test fired every assembled rifle as well as check for a tight fit. I found that dealers and distributors do not test fire the rifles they assemble nor do they disclose they are assembling the rifle configuration that may be listed on their website or on GunBroker. Which by the sounds of it is no big deal....

Also, I found a video made a couple of years ago with Larry Vickers interviewing Paul Buffoni and at the 3:15 mark it shows the uppers being test fired. https://youtu.be/JPLRUZbK_6I

So I wonder if some of BCM vendors are better than others on trying to find a tight fit? Any recommendations on BCM vendor list?

BCM® Rifle Company
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Old 04-21-2017, 03:38 AM   #50
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Well, I guess I have a lot to learn. For some reason, I thought BCM test fired every assembled rifle as well as check for a tight fit. I found that dealers and distributors do not test fire the rifles they assemble nor do they disclose they are assembling the rifle configuration that may be listed on their website or on GunBroker. Which by the sounds of it is no big deal....

Also, I found a video made a couple of years ago with Larry Vickers interviewing Paul Buffoni and at the 3:15 mark it shows the uppers being test fired. https://youtu.be/JPLRUZbK_6I

So I wonder if some of BCM vendors are better than others on trying to find a tight fit? Any recommendations on BCM vendor list?

BCM® Rifle Company
With the many variations BCM offers and the way the end consumers swap parts around, it just wouldn't make sense for them to ship every possible configuration as complete rifles. Every upper I've seen come from them has shown evidence of test firing. As far as "tight fit" goes, it has no effect on function and some play between receivers is actually designed into the weapon. If you stick with BCM or other reputable company for the upper and lower it will fit fine. Do a google search to educate further on that subject. You can save $100-$150 buying the upper and lower separately because you save the excise tax that is slapped on a complete firearm.
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Old 04-21-2017, 06:33 AM   #51
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Got an email from Grabagun. They are selling Colt 6920 with Magpul furniture for $849.

Colt Firearms LE6920 M4 Carbine MPS Black .223 / 5.56 NATO 16.1-inch 30 Rd Magpul Furniture
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:44 AM   #52
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Below is a list of parts on an AR I built. Parts are all MilSpec and fit perfectly, with just slight play in the upper/lower receiver, which I eliminated with a little #7 O-ring. This is a pretty nice AR, but of course it wasn't test fired. That's the great thing about MilSpec parts, they are all designed to fit. However, I am reasonably certain that FNH test fires the Upper Assemblies before they leave the factory...and I'm sure BCM does too. They have to make sure the Gas System is functional.

DD Omega Rail $230
PSA FNH CHF Upper/Barrel $310
Magpul CTR Stock $54
BCM BCG $169
KAC Rear Sight $200
Spikes Crusader Lower $90
Geissele SD-C Trigger $215
Lower kit $35
Tubb Flat Coil Spring $27
Magpul MIAD Grip $55
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Old 04-23-2017, 06:15 AM   #53
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Below is a list of parts on an AR I built. Parts are all MilSpec and fit perfectly, with just slight play in the upper/lower receiver, which I eliminated with a little #7 O-ring. This is a pretty nice AR, but of course it wasn't test fired. That's the great thing about MilSpec parts, they are all designed to fit. However, I am reasonably certain that FNH test fires the Upper Assemblies before they leave the factory...and I'm sure BCM does too. They have to make sure the Gas System is functional.

DD Omega Rail $230
PSA FNH CHF Upper/Barrel $310
Magpul CTR Stock $54
BCM BCG $169
KAC Rear Sight $200
Spikes Crusader Lower $90
Geissele SD-C Trigger $215
Lower kit $35
Tubb Flat Coil Spring $27
Magpul MIAD Grip $55
Sounds like a nice rifle! I'd have left the o-ring out but that's me. I think the o-ring or accuwedge's/ other tensioning devices do more harm than good in the long run. IMHO the only tensioning device needed is this.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1349.JPG (1.79 MB, 3 views)
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Old 04-23-2017, 06:34 AM   #54
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Well, I guess I have a lot to learn. For some reason, I thought BCM test fired every assembled rifle as well as check for a tight fit. I found that dealers and distributors do not test fire the rifles they assemble nor do they disclose they are assembling the rifle configuration that may be listed on their website or on GunBroker. Which by the sounds of it is no big deal....

Also, I found a video made a couple of years ago with Larry Vickers interviewing Paul Buffoni and at the 3:15 mark it shows the uppers being test fired. https://youtu.be/JPLRUZbK_6I

So I wonder if some of BCM vendors are better than others on trying to find a tight fit? Any recommendations on BCM vendor list?

BCM® Rifle Company
I did some further investigation for you code. I bought my BCM separately (upper and lower) both as complete assemblies. Mine has almost no play, very good fit. My buddy has 4 BCMs he also bought separately with the same result. I don't think you'll be disappointed with BCM if you go that route. Buy with confidence. I'm actually ordering another complete lower from BCM, upper will be decided later but will be complete BCM for sure.
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Old 04-29-2017, 10:00 PM   #55
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Well, I looked into possibly building a rifle. Using mostly Aero Precision parts, the cost was about $150 cheaper than buying. However, the weight was at 7.5 lbs building vs 5.8 lbs buying. If I bought a 4 oz lighter barrel, the savings would be even lower.

I guess I could have bought various items at different vendors, but then I would have to deal with shipping costs. Waiting for sales and free shipping around the holidays was not an option, plus I did not want to take up more of my time. For my situation, the savings was not worth my time.

I ended up buying three BCM RECCE-16 KMR-A BFH ELW.

Thank you to all who posted! I appreciate your help.
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:50 AM   #56
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Well, I looked into possibly building a rifle. Using mostly Aero Precision parts, the cost was about $150 cheaper than buying. However, the weight was at 7.5 lbs building vs 5.8 lbs buying. If I bought a 4 oz lighter barrel, the savings would be even lower.

I guess I could have bought various items at different vendors, but then I would have to deal with shipping costs. Waiting for sales and free shipping around the holidays was not an option, plus I did not want to take up more of my time. For my situation, the savings was not worth my time.

I ended up buying three BCM RECCE-16 KMR-A BFH ELW.

Thank you to all who posted! I appreciate your help.
Nice rifles for sure! Let us know what you think after some range time.
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Old 05-07-2017, 02:49 AM   #57
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To the OP if you haven't bought anything yet or are still undecided, here is my opinion. GET THE COLT. After extensive research I think it's the best choice. Colt is known for many years making high quality reliable 1911s and AR rifles. Yes the company has had and still is having financial problems. The people running that company are idiots. But they still make good firearms. They've been doing it a lot longer than all these new companies jumping into the AR and 1911 game.
I've been told by many that Colt is old and outdated. That all these new companies or new model ARs that are new from older reputable companies are the way to go. Yet I've been to the range so many times and seen their rifles fail, jam, and yes even break. But my Colt always fires and functions flawlessly every time.
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Old 05-07-2017, 05:08 AM   #58
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To the OP if you haven't bought anything yet or are still undecided, here is my opinion. GET THE COLT. After extensive research I think it's the best choice. Colt is known for many years making high quality reliable 1911s and AR rifles. Yes the company has had and still is having financial problems. The people running that company are idiots. But they still make good firearms. They've been doing it a lot longer than all these new companies jumping into the AR and 1911 game.
I've been told by many that Colt is old and outdated. That all these new companies or new model ARs that are new from older reputable companies are the way to go. Yet I've been to the range so many times and seen their rifles fail, jam, and yes even break. But my Colt always fires and functions flawlessly every time.
Very true, and i agree. Colt is good, the standard for most.
But, due to their years/decades of making it, others have found the way to make them the same or better. Parts, being MilSpec helps. Barrels are FN's, lowers, FCG's, buffer springs etc are all easily attainable.
But, if you dont know how to put it all together, COLT/BCM and a few others will give you an awesome rifle too.
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Old 05-07-2017, 06:59 AM   #59
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Very true, and i agree. Colt is good, the standard for most.
But, due to their years/decades of making it, others have found the way to make them the same or better. Parts, being MilSpec helps. Barrels are FN's, lowers, FCG's, buffer springs etc are all easily attainable.
But, if you dont know how to put it all together, COLT/BCM and a few others will give you an awesome rifle too.
Colt makes their own barrels. FN does supply a ton of barrels to a lot of different manufacturers and I'm not saying they haven't supplied some to Colt at times. I personally have owned a A2 20"HBAR Colt rifle that had "CMB" (Colt Muller Brass) marked upper receiver and FNMI marked barrel. There's only a handful of companies that do actually have the ability to manufacture barrels and do, in house for their ARs. Colt is definitely in that club and do make their own.
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Old 05-07-2017, 10:03 AM   #60
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That's a nice looking AR from BCM. May have been able to save some money and weight without sacrificing time, convenience, and quality by going with one of BCM's fluted lightweight barreled uppers and a complete lower but ultimately the differences would be negligible. The only thing I'd change is the trigger; Geissele triggers seem to find their way into all my rifles for some reason.

I'm curious about the problems found with the DD m4v11 since I own one. Do you have a link to the youtube video or can you give a brief summary of the problems? I only have a couple hundred rounds through mine without an issue but my other AR-15 from DD, an older m4v5lw, has a couple thousand trouble-free rounds through it. The only significant difference between the m4v11 and any other quality AR is the handguard as far as I know.

Enjoy your new AR, shoot it in good health!
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