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Relearned my fundamentals

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Old 05-12-2017, 09:17 PM   #1
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Relearned my fundamentals

So I've been shooting for a while now, I'd say it's been one of my main hobbies for the last 12 years. I've taken many classes, gone out shooting with a very wide variety of shooters. I've always taken pride in having decent fundamentals and I may not be the best shooter but I'm safe and shoot fairly well. My goal has always been to learn something every time I'm at the range and get better every time.
Last weekend, I had a CPL class since I moved back to Cleveland and need to get my Ohio license. As usual, I went into it with an open mind and respect for my instructors, but didn't think I'd really learn anything new about shooting. Figured it would be like my last CPL class where I'm helping the instructors babysit first timers.
I ended up in a discussion with one of the instructors and a guy that shoots competitively that had also just moved here from Wyoming. We were talking about grip and they told me my entire grip should be in my left hand. When I grip, hold the pistol with my main hand firmly, but not as hard as I had been holding before, and pull toward my body with my left hand very firmly. In fact, my entire grip on my right hand should come from pushing the pistol to keep it in place. The guy that does competition shooting said he's seen guys grip/pull so hard with their left that they start bleeding from their knuckles and joints on their right hand. Now I've never shot this way, expect on rifles when you pull the stock into your body, but I gave it a go, pulled pretty hard with my left hand. I don't know why this is my first time hearing this, because it instantly took me to a new level of recoil management. Put about 300 rounds down range, 100 of 9 40 and 45. I can honestly say that I could carry any caliber now and it doesn't make a difference to me. My sights barely move and it has made the biggest difference in getting back on target. I've always just squeezed by grips, pushing out straight with both hands.
Anyways, this thread was for anyone like me that never heard this before. Try it out, it'll also help in your trigger discipline. Learn something new every day!

Last edited by jkao42; 05-12-2017 at 09:20 PM.
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Old 05-13-2017, 08:33 AM   #2
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good tips, thanks
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Old 05-13-2017, 09:03 AM   #3
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I'm going to try it next week, but at this point I still go with what Brian Enos has to say about it:

The Combat Grip

Brian Enos has a differing viewpoint on grip:

“Some people talk about ‘setting your wrist’ with the cammed-wrist technique to hold down recoil, and then there’s the 60/40 theory that you should squeeze harder with the left hand than the right hand. It’s never worked for me to think of it that way. The way I think of it is with both hands gripping the gun equally. When I can do that, I don’t feel like I have a left hand and a right hand; I have one hand, one hand on the gun. I will say that thinking about the two-hand grip like ’60/40′ does seem to help people not overgrip with the right hand. When you grip the gun too hard with your master hand, you lose the fine motor control in your index finger for precise trigger manipulation.”

Read more: The Combat Grip
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Old 05-13-2017, 09:29 AM   #4
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Congrats jko42, you sure got your moneys worth out of that CPL class.

I also learned to use my "weak" hand for most of the support and grip pressure. With my strong hand I grip my pistol with a handshake type grip pressure and my pinky just kind of lays on the grip using my other two fingers to pinch my pistol grip into my strong hand front to back rather than a monkey grip.

IMO this is an excellent video by Shannon Smith about pistol grip in detail and he goes over using the support hand for most of the grip pressure on the pistol.


Last edited by Sigarms228; 05-13-2017 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:25 AM   #5
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That info was introduced with Col. Jeff Cooper and the Modern Technique. It is part of the seven fundamentals of shooting. i.e. Grip
However, I am glad that it has helped your marksmanship. Always, always practice the 7 fundamentals. When it appears you are shooting all over the place, return to the fundamentals.

Last edited by boris95; 05-14-2017 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:31 AM   #6
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Thanks, good info.
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Old 05-17-2017, 03:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkao42 View Post
So I've been shooting for a while now, I'd say it's been one of my main hobbies for the last 12 years. I've taken many classes, gone out shooting with a very wide variety of shooters. I've always taken pride in having decent fundamentals and I may not be the best shooter but I'm safe and shoot fairly well. My goal has always been to learn something every time I'm at the range and get better every time.
Last weekend, I had a CPL class since I moved back to Cleveland and need to get my Ohio license. As usual, I went into it with an open mind and respect for my instructors, but didn't think I'd really learn anything new about shooting. Figured it would be like my last CPL class where I'm helping the instructors babysit first timers.
I ended up in a discussion with one of the instructors and a guy that shoots competitively that had also just moved here from Wyoming. We were talking about grip and they told me my entire grip should be in my left hand. When I grip, hold the pistol with my main hand firmly, but not as hard as I had been holding before, and pull toward my body with my left hand very firmly. In fact, my entire grip on my right hand should come from pushing the pistol to keep it in place. The guy that does competition shooting said he's seen guys grip/pull so hard with their left that they start bleeding from their knuckles and joints on their right hand. Now I've never shot this way, expect on rifles when you pull the stock into your body, but I gave it a go, pulled pretty hard with my left hand. I don't know why this is my first time hearing this, because it instantly took me to a new level of recoil management. Put about 300 rounds down range, 100 of 9 40 and 45. I can honestly say that I could carry any caliber now and it doesn't make a difference to me. My sights barely move and it has made the biggest difference in getting back on target. I've always just squeezed by grips, pushing out straight with both hands.
Anyways, this thread was for anyone like me that never heard this before. Try it out, it'll also help in your trigger discipline. Learn something new every day!
Jkao42, I just saw your post. I highly recommend the book The Perfect Pistol Shot, by Albert H. League III. Like you I have added a number of changes and improvements to my stance and grip which greatly aided my accuracy since I first learned to shoot pistols.

What started me to change is in one post a few years back I learned that many instructors teach different techniques because of the way THEY do competition. The poster said there are so many different shooting techniques (grip, stance, etc...) because none of these instructors have the same set of reflexes, muscle control and bone structure. So what they do is teach you their method (grip, stance, etc...) that they can effectively demonstrate and then tell you how to modify your stance or grip to get you close to how they shoot. When I read this I realized my stance was fine and with my shooting problems - its all in the hands.

I originally learned with the 60/40 theory that you should squeeze harder with the left hand than the right hand. It’s never worked for me to think of it that way. The way I think of it is with both hands gripping the gun equally. I believe now that when you grip the gun too hard with your left hand, you lose the fine motor control in your index finger for precise trigger manipulation that can throw your shots around. This was a big switch from the 60/40. Other articles told me my entire grip should be in my left hand. So today when I grip, I hold the pistol with my main hand firmly, but not as hard as I had been holding before with 60/40, and pull toward my body with my left hand very firmly. In fact, my entire grip on my right hand comes from pushing the pistol just to keep it in place.

The next major change I made was letting the pistol "sit" in the web of my hand with my thumbs up off the pistol with a medium to light grip. The thumbs off eliminated my shooting low/left. The primary reason for shooting low/left for right hander’s like me is that the shooter are "milking" the pistol (like a cow) instead of just "squeezing" the trigger. As I pulled the trigger, my thumbs were squeezing the grip or increasing their entire grip on the gun. This had the effect of pushing the muzzle down and to the left. Getting your hands high up on the gun is to get more leverage to control muzzle flip really helped. When I was gripping too hard, by contrast, it negatively affect my sight alignment, caused me trigger freeze (failure to let the trigger return forward far enough between shots to reset) for multiple-shots and created fatigue in my fingers, hands and forearms.

I didn’t do all this over night. It took me about 2 years of trial and error. Plus asking people what worked for them. Well...I hope this story helped...best a luck in your shooting...
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Last edited by rabbitone; 05-17-2017 at 03:24 PM.
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