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Tactical PEW PEW PEW PEW Training!

21K views 217 replies 15 participants last post by  InOverMyHead 
#1 · (Edited)


Slow PEW PEW PEW



Not so slow PEW PEW PEW

Didn't realize that someone's targets partially obscured the camera's view... I was using the remote! :lol:

------------------------------

Had a really good day today, just needed to share :lol:​
 
#2 · (Edited)


Mmm...

More Tacticalicity!

New glass on a quick - detach mount!

Can't wait to try it out!



Brownell's "Vertical Reticle Instrument," Part Number 289-100-000WB.

This here doohickey made adjusting the scope's vertical axis a breeze.

Must recommend to fellow Forumati!
 

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#3 · (Edited)


6x



8x



10x



12x



14x



16x



20x



24x

--------------------

Mmm...

Excellent!

Reminds me of these old surveyor's tools I used to play with, when they were building this new road close to where I lived when I was a kid...

I still like the color through my Hensoldt, however...

...because I like my images to have artistic flair and pop, worthy of proper composition :lol:
 

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#4 ·
Not too bad, through an iPhone lens!
 
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#6 ·


More random PEW PEW PEW PEW!​
 
#8 ·
Enough already! I'm tired of genuflecting at each pew...😜

Neato pix!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
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#9 ·
Is it required to SAY "Pew Pew Pew" while doing it, or is it enough to actually be firing it? :)
 
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#10 ·
Even if you "say" it silently in your mind, that will suffice :lol:
 
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#11 ·



That's right, Edsel. I went there.
 
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#12 ·


O.M.G.

Like, I totally had to do it.

Answered my inner Call of Duty urges and splurged.

Even though it was made in the evil parallel mirror - image universe.

This thing is just sooo awesome, like, you know, sooo tactical.

I just need to paint my ATV in a matching color so they won't clash.
 

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#14 ·
Thanks!

Now, if the weather won't get in the way of more pew pew pew pew!
 
#16 ·


Yeeeah!

Finally set it up the way I want it...

The nice thing is, with the scope's eye relief and my length of pull, I don't have to move my face off the rest when cycling the bolt. The action's not that short, despite how AI describes it, but still... Stangskyting potential!



100 meters, 10 rounds of Federal Premium Gold Medal Ammunition .308 Winchester, 175 grain, Sierra® MatchKing BTHP.

Loaded each round into the chamber manually, one at a time. Wanted to make sure that i was letting the barrel cool.

Wow!



Loaded the magazine with 10 rounds, lost all discipline, and went pew pew pew pew at 200 meters!

Nothing to write home about, naturally...
 

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#111 · (Edited)
Mmmkay!

Finally got some things done!



Reduced my rifle's trigger weight, borrowed a wide - stanced bipod (I am really averse to lugging shooting bags to the range), checked the scope rings, torqued the barrel retaining screw, made offerings to the 2nd Amendment Gods and Deities of Tacticalicity...



100 meters, 10 rounds of Federal Premium Gold Medal Ammunition .308 Winchester, 175 grain, Sierra® MatchKing BTHP.


The only groups ever fired from this rifle worth a darn were with 175 grain FGMMs.

Why not clone these rounds, then?

I measured the ogives and COALs on a bunch of FGMM rounds. Federal seems to seat them to a certain depth based on the ogives, and just trims the meplats at 2.8". I couldn't trim the meplats myself, thus the odd 2.81" and 2.82" lengths.

2.29355" - 2.218775" (ogive measurements, touching lands - FGMM reference) = 0.074775" jump for 168 grain SMK
2.29565" - 2.237975" (ogive measurements, touching lands - FGMM reference) = 0.057675" jump for 175 grain SMK

Nothing like a Remington barrel's leade, but I assume that's a generous bit of freebore there.

Prior to yesterday's outing, all bullets were seated "kissing the lands."

Except for the Lapua Scenars, everything was seated to PMAG maximum (~ 2.82"). In retrospect, I should've done the same for the Scenars...



...I was concerned over how long these bullets were, and how much they'd spike the pressure if seated deep. IMR / Hodgdon's reloading database indicates my load is within limits, but even with the bullets seated so far out, QuickLOAD was already screaming, "Danger! Danger! Catastrophic failure imminent!"

Anyway, here are the results...

5 shots per target.

TIR was sorted loosely from highest to lowest; there could very well have been ammunition with a TIR 0.006" in the 0.004" group, if there weren't any 0.005 examples... But there were definitely samples with a TIR of 0.0015" for each group, and these were shot last (bottom - most, right column). To clarify...

01. 0.008"
02. 0.008"
03. 0.008"
04. 0.008"
05. 0.007" ___ Group 0.006"+
06. 0.006"
07. 0.006"
08. 0.006"
09. 0.006"
10. 0.006" ___ Group 0.005"
11. 0.006"
12. 0.006"
13. 0.005"
14. 0.004"
15. 0.004" ___ Group 0.004"

...but all of this is moot, as runout does not appear to have any bearing whatsoever within 100 meters! In fact, the best group came from a batch with a TIR in excess of 0.006"...



It wasn't an ideal day, with temperatures as high as 90F and a wind of 18 - 26mph WSW.

Target distance was reduced to 100 meters instead of the usual 200 meters used in the prior posts...



Lapua Scenar 155 grain HPBT | Lapua Brass | Remington LR Primers No. 9.5 | IMR 8208 XBR 45 grains


Lapua Scenar 155 grain HPBT | Lapua Brass | Federal LR Primers GM210M | IMR 8208 XBR 45 grains


Sierra Matchking 168 grain HPBT | Lapua Brass | Remington LR Primers No. 9.5 | IMR 4064 42.8 grains


Sierra Matchking 168 grain HPBT | Lapua Brass | Federal LR Primers GM210M | IMR 4064 42.8 grains


Sierra Matchking 175 grain HPBT | Lapua Brass | Remington LR Primers No. 9.5 | IMR 4064 41.7 grains


Sierra Matchking 175 grain HPBT | Lapua Brass | Federal LR Primers GM210M | IMR 4064 41.7 grains
I really need to excercise more discipline in waiting for the barrel to cool down (WARM as opposed to SCORCHING!).

Breaks are mandatory between each five - shot group, for best results.


So the rifle simply doesn't like the bullets touching the lands, it seems?!
 

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#17 ·


Thought this might be useful for suppressor owners...

Figured it might actually be better than a test tube brush!
 

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#19 ·
Thanks!
 
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#20 · (Edited)
Just a random, spur - of - the - moment comparison between the Hensoldt SSG-P 3-12x56mm and Kahles k624i (MSR) 6-24x56mm... :lol:

Hensoldt SSG-P 3-12x56mm









1. Horrible price
2. Overbuilt and quite heavy, sturdier than a truncheon
3. Integral Picatinny quick - detach clamp
4. Beeeauuutiful glass
5. Magnification Range probably perfect for .308 Winchester
6. Tunneling (is that spelled with a single L or double L?) at lower magnification
7. Reticle design really old - school, but tried and true
8. Beatiful low - light illumination scheme, uses two AA batteries!
9. Elevation Indicator on reticle
10. Enough of an oddball scope to always be a conversation piece at the range

Kahles k624i 6-24x56mm









1. Price that one would expect for a good scope with these features
2. Not overbuilt, but not a slouch either... Has a really tough finish, not sure what
3. Subjectively, glass slightly below high - end Swarovskis / Schmidt und Benders / Hensoldts
5. Wonderful magnification range, that would suit a .338 Lapua Magnum
6. No tunneling at all
7. MSR and AMR Reticles simply awesome
8. Poorly implemented illumination scheme - central cross is okay, but rest of reticle glints in odd places (hashes and numbers are illegible), as opposed to the uniform "redness" in the Hensoldt SSG-P; uses CR2032 battery
9. Parallax Ring right where the Elevation Knob is, not in separate location

The newer Kahles definitely has more useful range bling, while the Hensoldt seems like a dead - serious tool for someone who knows what he's doing... Like, OMG, whatever.

The Kahles seems more fun, but the Hensoldt is just, like, waaay cooler :lol:
 

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#21 ·


The group pictured above came from the first deliberate, aimed shots from my new bolt gun.

Prior to that, I was firing el cheapo Federal 7.62x51mm XM80C (following the bizarre break - in instructions below). Even with bottom - of - the - barrel surplus military ball ammunition, consistent hits on a 12" steel target at 200 meters (a 3" discoloration on the target, from what I could see through my scope) were incredibly monotonous.

12. BARREL BREAK-IN PROCEDURE

Before a new rifle reaches a customer it has been already shot several rounds. The rifle is first ‘proof’ tested and then tested for function and accuracy by firing at least two five-round groups. The rifle and barrel are cleaned thoroughly after each of these processes. If the user wishes to continue a barrel break in procedure on the receipt of the new rifle, we would suggest the following, using standard ball ammunition. The barrel cleaning procedure described in this manual should be followed while carrying out any barrel breaking in procedure.

Shoot 3 shots and clean
Shoot 5 shots and clean
Shoot 5 shots and clean
Shoot 10 shots and clean

It is important to maintain a good cleaning regime for the life of the rifle.


My question is...

Why on earth are my SIG rifles sooo demanding of match - grade ammunition?

They're darned pitiful with military ball ammunition (so much for being battle rifles and all that)...
 
#22 ·
 
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#23 · (Edited)
Nevermind. I figured it out.
 
#24 · (Edited)


Had some fun with the Aston Martin!

At 100 meters, groups were small no matter what (lousy) ammunition I used.

Decided to evaluate groups at 200 meters to magnify errors.

Not quite sure what to make of these results.

THEY'RE HORRIBLE!

Small squares are 0.5" by 0.5".

Nosler Custom Competition 168 grains | Lake City 2009 7.62x51mm Brass | Remington Large Rifle Primers No. 9.5 | IMR 4064 41 to 43.5 grains, 0.1 grain gradations

- Full - Length Resized, no Expander Ball
- Case Necks Dilated with Mandrel
- Trimmed to Case Overall Length of 2.010" (usually 2.005" in literature)
- Annealed
- Meplats pointed with Whidden Bullet Pointing Die
- Bullets seated touching lands

In retrospect, maybe the bullets should be seated away from the lands... The rifle was allegedly designed to perform well even with machinegun ammunition delinked in the field. Sooo tactical!!! Perhaps seating the bullets to PMAG length would improve things?

With these results, there seems to be a plateau rather than a node of sorts between 42.6 and 43 grains (?).

Will resume with a 43.6 to 45.5 grain run next time.
 

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#25 · (Edited)


...continued.



Tried a seating depth between PMAG maximum and "kissing the lands..."

No luck, but the trend towards a smaller group at 43 grains is there nevertheless (which kinda validates that perhaps I'm actually doing something consistent).

43, 45, and 45.5 grains appear to be good nodes (?).
 

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#26 ·
Were these shot round-robin style? Try shooting off sandbags if you are using the bipod for this test. My 25/06 shoots terribly when attached to a bipod.

42.9 and 45 seem to be the nodes in my eyes.
 
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#27 ·
Bipod in front, bag at the rear...

I'll try out some SMKs next time.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Edsel. Ive been looking over another theory of accuracy called Optimum Barrel Time comparing what I have loaded, Quickloads barrel time estimate and the 7 nodes that the author lists for various barrel lengths. its been extremely close to actual target data of my loads. Close enough that I think I will consult this ad QL before I start any more loads developments.

Using your info, (an estimate of your OAL) and 26 inch barrel, your top node for 168 gr bullets is in the red. Looking at your OCW tests, it looks like 42 coincides with the next highest (fastest) node on the OBT list. I bet you can tighten the groups up by changing the seating depth a little. Other recommendation, change bullet weight or powder to see if you can get what you want out of it.

Cartridge : 7.62 mm NATO (7.62 x 51)
Bullet : .308, 168, Nosler CC HPBT J4 53164
Useable Case Capaci: 49.899 grain H2O = 3.240 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.900 inch = 73.66 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder : IMR 4064

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 94 40.68 2526 2379 43114 6281 96.9 1.384
-09.0 95 41.13 2551 2428 44468 6343 97.2 1.365
-08.0 96 41.58 2577 2476 45864 6403 97.5 1.346
-07.0 97 42.04 2602 2525 47304 6461 97.8 1.328
-06.0 98 42.49 2627 2575 48790 6517 98.1 1.310
-05.0 99 42.94 2653 2625 50323 6571 98.4 1.292
-04.0 100 43.39 2678 2675 51905 6622 98.6 1.275 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 101 43.84 2703 2725 53538 6672 98.8 1.258 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 102 44.30 2728 2776 55224 6719 99.0 1.241 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 103 44.75 2753 2827 56964 6764 99.2 1.225 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 104 45.20 2778 2878 58761 6807 99.3 1.209 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 105 45.65 2803 2930 60617 6847 99.5 1.193 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 106 46.10 2827 2982 62535 6885 99.6 1.178 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 107 46.56 2852 3034 64517 6920 99.7 1.162 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 108 47.01 2877 3087 66566 6953 99.8 1.147 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 109 47.46 2901 3139 68684 6983 99.9 1.133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 104 45.20 2879 3092 69201 6554 100.0 1.134 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 104 45.20 2634 2588 48598 6772 95.1 1.308

Match the last column in the QL table (B_Time) (for time the bullet spends in barrel) l to the nodes in the OBT table.

This is a general OBT table. Im still figuring out how to calculate/ create a tailored one using range data. The table still represented a lot of my accurate loads though.
 
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#35 ·
Edsel. Ive been looking over another theory of accuracy called Optimum Barrel Time...
I remember that one, it's the last entry in my "load development" bookmarks.

That's the one where this Electrical Engineer suspected that Dan Newberry's observations may have fit equations for wave propagation, and tested a purely empirical model against real - world observations (and there seems to be some congruence).

That's probably the most cogent idea (as opposed to thass how mah grandaddy plucked th' banjos an' shot 'em critters lore) there is circulating on the Internetz!

For those who haven't lost the aptitude for it...

...the OBT concept is VERY WORTHY of a Fourier Transform.
 
#29 ·
@Wyo7200

I'm really leaning towards getting a copy of QuickLoad, and partnering it with ColdBore (the latter would be perfect, it'll work on my Windows 6 phone).

Is this where you got yours from?

http://www.neconos.com/category/Software-2

My barrel's actually a 26 incher, with a 1 in 12" rifling.
 
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#30 ·
Yeah, thats where I got it- I think its the only place to get it- from. Its been invaluable really.

I redo the comparison with the 26" barrel. My photogrammetry skills must be slipping.

I'll update the above post so it doesnt cause any confusion.
 
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