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This is a discussion on Read before you buy Legion within the Legion Series forums, part of the SIG Sauer Pistols category; My German P226 Nitron shoes similar wear. It's not possible to avoid wear in the slide rails. Any finish will wear off the high spots ...


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Old 12-02-2016, 06:55 PM   #16
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My German P226 Nitron shoes similar wear. It's not possible to avoid wear in the slide rails. Any finish will wear off the high spots and stainless will polish.
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Old 12-02-2016, 07:25 PM   #17
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A regular wipe down with a CPL will leave a microfilm of protection that will go a long way in maintaining the PVD.
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Old 12-02-2016, 08:32 PM   #18
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I know SIG was trying to change things up and do something really different with the Legion. I don't understand why the finish on the Legion series doesn't wear like Nitron. They are both PVD processes and all my Nitron SIGs have worn like iron. My 22 year old 229-40 has about 30,000 rounds thru it and had no finish issues, at all. Just wondering.
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Old 12-02-2016, 09:07 PM   #19
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No clue why one is better than the other, just read up on it

Physical Vapor Deposition, is the process similar to powder coating but done in a vacuum. Charge set to the object and then to the vapor, they adhere.

Could it be something as simple as the color, maybe the black is more conductive than the gray?? and adheres better?

Who knows but the black is much tougher

Don't they use green on some and FDE, aren't all of those PVD, then why is the gray not as durable?

Only SIG knows and they ain't telling us?
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Old 12-02-2016, 09:10 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Sig Texas View Post
I know SIG was trying to change things up and do something really different with the Legion. I don't understand why the finish on the Legion series doesn't wear like Nitron. They are both PVD processes and all my Nitron SIGs have worn like iron. My 22 year old 229-40 has about 30,000 rounds thru it and had no finish issues, at all. Just wondering.


Sig and Ionbond won't disclose the exact finishes used, but I did some researching, and my best guess is that the "Nitron" coating is Ionbond's Tribobond 40 Series DLC, whereas the Legion coating is Ionbond's Decobond PVD.

While both use the physical vapor deposition process, only the "Nitron" is a known DLC coating, whereas the Decobond may be one of many types ("ZrN, TiN, DLC or similar," quote from Ionbond's Decobond portfolio).

Tribobond 40 is a more serious coating, designed for industrial, aerospace, and racings applications, along with component coating (tools and firearms included). A layer of chromium is applied to the substrate metal, and then a layer of W DLC is applied to the chromium. On the other hand, the Decobond series of coatings tend to focus on decoration, with greater emphasis on "color matching" and "a bespoke look."



Ionbond *-*Firearms

http://www.ionbond.com/fileadmin/ion...armsEN_IHI.pdf
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Old 12-02-2016, 09:20 PM   #21
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Jeff

Thanks for the explanation. So I guess the FDE and Green are iobond and not decobond?

Guess it figures, that the Legion would focus more on looks than durability, they needed a different color to promote it and make it special, so I guess they went with that.

I would much prefer durability over a 'look', but that is just me, and I can't afford one anyway.
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Old 12-02-2016, 09:29 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by DirtDiver69 View Post
Jeff

Thanks for the explanation. So I guess the FDE and Green are iobond and not decobond?

Guess it figures, that the Legion would focus more on looks than durability, they needed a different color to promote it and make it special, so I guess they went with that.

I would much prefer durability over a 'look', but that is just me, and I can't afford one anyway.

To be clear, this is all just my guess. Continuing to speculate...

Looking at the Tribobond portfolio, nearly all of the DLC coatings are black or grey. Decobond comes in all colors, so, if Sig's FDE and green finishes are Ionbond coatings, then they too are Decobond. Probably the materials used to make the FDE and green colors just happen to be a more durable in nature than the materials used to get the Legion look. To make matters more complicated, I'm pretty sure Sig has used other coating methods, such as ceramic/baked finishes.



Ionbond *-*Coating Portfolio
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Old 12-02-2016, 09:57 PM   #23
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With all due respect....my legion is a beast, it's meant to be used and abused. If you are looking for a safe queen get something else. The legion is such a shooter, I bought 2.... I've moved off my HK as the primary weapon...something I never thought I would do.
so what if there are color or finish issues is what I say....
Without knowing what was or was not done, I would say check your lube. I've got several thousand thru the guns with nothing near what u r showing.
Hope you find some level of satisfaction with the weapon.
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Last edited by Vandy; 12-02-2016 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 12-02-2016, 10:09 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Sig Texas View Post
I know SIG was trying to change things up and do something really different with the Legion. I don't understand why the finish on the Legion series doesn't wear like Nitron. They are both PVD processes and all my Nitron SIGs have worn like iron. My 22 year old 229-40 has about 30,000 rounds thru it and had no finish issues, at all. Just wondering.
I guess much has to do with the material being applied in the PVD process.

Ionbond *-*PVD

They use both CVD (chemical vapor deposition) and PVD to apply titanium nitride (TiN) coating to cutting tools (reduces friction and wear) - one could hardly expect a more durable and abrasion resistant coating - I'vw had it wear off the cutting edge of an end mill or drill bit - after extended use - but still he77 for stout.

The black nitron finish on a Classic P-Series SIG is probably somewhere approaching the wear resistance of a TiN coating - it's likely a metalic alloy that once applied behaves in a similar manner as would a thin metal plating. The color coat being use on the Legion doesn't appear to be nearly as durable. Similar processes, different composition. That's a guess, btw, as this is not my field of expertise (if I have one at all - I prefer to consider myself as a cesspool of superfluous knowledge), though I find PVD and plating, and anodizing interesting (have an anodizing set up in my shop).
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Old 12-02-2016, 10:51 PM   #25
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Normal wear.
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Old 12-03-2016, 12:56 AM   #26
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I'll give you $250 for that worn out junk

Think about it this way - pvd is a coating, intron is a case-hardening.
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Old 12-03-2016, 01:02 AM   #27
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make sure to lube the rails & welcome from az.
Not knowing how the weapon was at the time of purchase and only seeing it in this condition, I can't help wonder if a proper amount of grease applied to the rails might have protected the finish wear a bid better. IDK, just a thought here gang.

Like bearone2 stated, Welcome to the forum!
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Old 12-03-2016, 02:10 AM   #28
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I agree it's normal wear. You have to remember it's a tool. An if you use that tool, it's going to get banged up. Keep it lubed, and definitely don't worry about scratches or wear. That stuff is going to happen, and definitely gives the gun character.


I am also in the "tool" camp and how this tool works has always been my primary concern. I certainly agree that the finish has problems and is of concern to many owners but not really of concern to me. I'm going to use my 226 Legion this morning in my first Steel Challenge Match.
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Old 12-03-2016, 02:11 AM   #29
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Congrats on the schweet Legion and welcome from Gettysburg, Penna. The Legion is a solid shooter with a big price tag to play with all those custom features.... Love to have one, but my Elite Stainless steel saved me from that purchase. I feel your pain as many new Legion owners here have the same issues, your not alone. Positive note, its a damn noice, dependable, solid shooter, with all the bells and whistles....So enjoy it....Again, welcome to the Signess.
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Last edited by Penna shooter; 12-03-2016 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 12-03-2016, 02:48 AM   #30
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Coating coming off of P229 Legion .357 SIG. I sent pictures and talked to a customer service representative and was told this is normal wear and tear. If I knew the coating would be coming off like this I would have never purchased the legion series pistol. I hope this post can save somebody money or make a decision. This is what your Legion Series will look like after 1,000 rounds
So you never holster a pistol so it doesn't show holster wear.
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