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This is a discussion on Read before you buy Legion within the Legion Series forums, part of the SIG Sauer Pistols category; The finish looks like the old Parkerizing that was on my police shotgun and military weapons. The finish would wear and appeared not to be ...


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Old 12-25-2016, 10:06 AM   #121
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The finish looks like the old Parkerizing that was on my police shotgun and military weapons. The finish would wear and appeared not to be protected. However, the shotgun was still protected from the elements, just didn't look pretty. It would also be like a car paint job, underneath still had the clear coat..
Well this is my humble opinion...
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Old 12-31-2016, 11:36 AM   #122
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1st post, just got a 226 Legion SAO (1st SIG) and the OP's pictures look just like regular wear to me.

After seeing all of the great reviews raving about the trigger of the Legion SAOs I was interested (had waffled on jumping into a SIG many times in the past, wanting a German one due to the Cohen-era's bad rep) but did a lot of research first like I usually do. I probably did even more in this case since like I said, every time I considered SIG I always was preferring to get a German-made model because of the reputation of Cohen and his desire to MIM the world. So in the coruse of this I came across all the finish complaints.

Some of the pictures I saw gave me a good chuckle. When my pistol first came out of the box it had a lot of oil on it. The oily areas were slick and shiny in appearance while the areas still bone dry looked a whole different color. It kind of reminds me when you get a new AR and it comes in a foam case and is bone dry with some spots appearing milky or cloudy until you get some oil on it and get it jet black.

Well, some of the pictures I saw complaining of the finish were pictures of them right out of the box before the whole exterior received a good rubdown! I can't believe anyone would not realize the dry spots were the ones that looked strange. On mine the main area was inside the trigger--it almost looked bronze in color until I wiped everything down and now the whole pistol is a nice, subdued, uniform gray color.

Inside the magazine well there is some variation and I've also seen pictures of that posted when people are complaining. Why does anyone care what INSIDE the magwell looks like? As long as the finish there is present and functioning I'm good to go.

Last edited by falar; 12-31-2016 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 01-01-2017, 04:35 AM   #123
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Read before you buy Legion

Ok, I've read. Right at 2000 rounds through mine. I shoot it often, it's in my rotation and looked at it close. ......no finish issues or spots??????

I do know if I carry my Glocks in
Leather the finish on them will look spotty until I wipe them off with a light coat of oil. When I carry them in Kydex I don't see the spots on the finish.

Really enjoying the 229 Legion so far. No issues, mechanical or cosmetic.
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Last edited by lshooter; 01-01-2017 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 01-01-2017, 10:08 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by DirtDiver69 View Post
Not to offend, but it looks to me like normal wear.
The PVD is not as tough as Nitron, and that means it will wear off much sooner, sorry that you feel deceived.
Also Nitron=Nitrocarburizing which can't be applied to aluminum so no aluminum framed guns will have a the "Nitron" finish on the frame itself.

I would assume the "Nitron" models have a nitrocarburized slide and barrel and the frame is just hard anodized black. Nitrocarburizing is an actual surface treatment and not a coating, but everyone wants to call it a fancy name.

SIG is Nitron
HK is HE
Glock is tennifer
Dan Wesson is Duty Treat
etc

As far as the Legion frames go I would be absolutely shocked if they were not hard anodized FIRST and then received the PVD finish. In this case it will have more protection than a Nitron model. Now, the PVD slide probably has a higher friction coefficient compared to the nitrocarburized ones and may wear the frame finish faster but if you start to wear through the PVD you still have the hard anodizing as well.

Last edited by falar; 01-01-2017 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 01-01-2017, 10:37 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falar View Post

-snip-

As far as the Legion frames go I would be absolutely shocked if they were not hard anodized FIRST and then received the PVD finish. In this case it will have more protection than a Nitron model. Now, the PVD slide probably has a higher friction coefficient compared to the nitrocarburized ones and may wear the frame finish faster but if you start to wear through the PVD you still have the hard anodizing as well.
You won't be shocked. The aluminum allow frame is hard anodized prior to the PVD coating. Not sure if the PVD coating has a higher coefficient of friction than does the anodize layer. Anodize is harder than the PVD coating SIG is using, but one cannot go by hardness alone (Teflon and UHMW-PE are both relatively soft and are slipperier than snake snot on a flat rock). The particular PVD coating, whether due to material or process, at least in some cases does not seem to be as durable at one might hope.

As to the PVD over anodize providing more protection, yes it would. Anodize is particularly susceptible to impact damage at it's "sharper edges" (as during the anodizing process, the anodize layer grows from the parent metal at roughly 90 degrees, so a sharp edge gets little layer thickness as compared to a flat or more rounded edge. Still, anodize is hell for stout, so the PVD may sacrifice itself and basically look pretty crappy if treated roughly as compared to an anodized layer alone.

I don't own a Legion and have no plans to acquire one at present.
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Old 01-01-2017, 11:08 AM   #126
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I've seen people unhappy with how quickly PVD wears on other guns, though its usually marketed as Ionbond.

Some of the complaints I was scoffing at can be seen here in this link:

Sig Sauer Legion PVD finish concerns - The Firearm Blog

Now a few of those pictures due look like a lemon may have got out but look how many of them are just dry vs oily spots as they come right out of the box? Or mag well shots?

It seems there is a LOT of complaints of the Legion finish due to a few reasons:

1. Marketing potentially drawing in people who are unfamiliar with guns
2. People making a 1k pistol purchase for the first time, assuming the finish will be superior to other guns they have.
3. Once complaints get to the hysteria point, you get people unboxing theirs and taking pics of areas that are dry thinking they are finish flaws.
4. Some probably did get out with legitimate finish flaws and those pictures have been circulated, getting everyone on edge and looking for problems.

When I received my pistol Friday I did a very thorough examination.

In the right light only on the side of the slide without the ejection port there are two very small "blotches" towards the muzzle where it appears thin or "rubbed". Only visible in the right light at the right angle. Holsters will wear this entire area uniform eventually. Zero concern for me.

I did find sharp lip/burr on the edge of one of the barrels locking lugs though. I am not familiar with how the SIG lockup works so I am not sure if this is a critical area or not for function but it is a pretty sharp lip/burr. I found a picture of a stock SIG barrel and outlined the exact area:



I don't think I could ever be "that guy" and send something in for something as minor as that. The files I have are both too big to get in there but I might buy a small one and smooth that corner out before range time on Tuesday.
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Old 01-01-2017, 03:21 PM   #127
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That wear looks fairly normal, ish.

If you want to feel better about yours, do a search on here you'll see my 229 Legion that had crazy finish issues. Sig ended up replacing the frame and refinishing the whole pistol because it was done so poorly. That was after they replaced the crooked front sight, but before they adjusted the barrel to hit at POA. But I digress.

Any malfunctions?
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Old 01-01-2017, 04:39 PM   #128
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Woah, nice thread Doc.

I guess now we know that for whatever reason, they DO dye the anodizing on the frame still prior to applying the PVD.
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Old 01-01-2017, 05:00 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falar View Post
I did find sharp lip/burr on the edge of one of the barrels locking lugs though. I am not familiar with how the SIG lockup works so I am not sure if this is a critical area or not for function but it is a pretty sharp lip/burr. I found a picture of a stock SIG barrel and outlined the exact area:

That ding in the barrel lug is from normal contact with with the locking insert. This occurs as the slide is recoiling and the lug hooks on the locking insert to "unlock" the barrel from the slide.

I personally don't see a need to file it.
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Old 01-01-2017, 09:37 PM   #130
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I will look around see if anybody's interested in the meantime I may be interested myself


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Old 01-02-2017, 07:43 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by 357sigP226 View Post
Coating coming off of P229 Legion .357 SIG. I sent pictures and talked to a customer service representative and was told this is normal wear and tear. If I knew the coating would be coming off like this I would have never purchased the legion series pistol. I hope this post can save somebody money or make a decision. This is what your Legion Series will look like after 1,000 rounds
Here is an idea for you to help hide the wear while also creating a slick surface to reduce future wear:
https://www.amazon.com/Birchwood-Cas...371430&sr=8-21
This solid film lubricant is a close match in color to the Legion PVD. If you follow directions, the film is semi-permanent. You can put it on the length of the rail and after it is fully cured, you can still use grease on the rails. Your shinny wear spots will be invisible. If you have other spots on the frame or slide you can use it as touch up. Hope this helps
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Old 01-03-2017, 09:59 PM   #132
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My p229 Legion has some of the coating coming off due to training etc... it's not even a year old but I've run a couple of thousand rounds through it. Honestly I'm not worried about it, the slide is stainless steel so rust won't be an issue and I think a little wear makes the gun look used which is a plus in my book. People are actually getting 'battle worn' Cerakote paint jobs these days but at least mine has earned the look.
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Old 01-04-2017, 04:53 AM   #133
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Maybe its because I'm cheap, or perhaps I didn't buy into the hype, but my $1,000 MK25 looks like new (except the barrel finish is worn) even after carrying it for over a year in kydex and leather, shooting it in IDPA matches, using it as it was intended to be used. The poor thing has over 17,000 rounds out of it and still counting. Wonder what I'm doing wrong or did I just buy a "plain Jane" work horse Sig to use and shoot?

Sig Legion-making sure everyone feels like the special butterfly and they all get a ribbon LOL
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Old 01-04-2017, 10:49 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falar View Post
Also Nitron=Nitrocarburizing which can't be applied to aluminum so no aluminum framed guns will have a the "Nitron" finish on the frame itself.

I would assume the "Nitron" models have a nitrocarburized slide and barrel and the frame is just hard anodized black. Nitrocarburizing is an actual surface treatment and not a coating, but everyone wants to call it a fancy name.

SIG is Nitron
HK is HE
Glock is tennifer
Dan Wesson is Duty Treat
etc

As far as the Legion frames go I would be absolutely shocked if they were not hard anodized FIRST and then received the PVD finish. In this case it will have more protection than a Nitron model. Now, the PVD slide probably has a higher friction coefficient compared to the nitrocarburized ones and may wear the frame finish faster but if you start to wear through the PVD you still have the hard anodizing as well.
This is what I was referring to earlier....in that it feels less 'slick' even with some oil rubbed in, and seems to have more 'grip' for something to wear it away.
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Old 01-08-2017, 04:16 PM   #135
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Going one step further with the shoe analogy . . .

If my goal was to have a pair of shoes that didn't show wear, I'd buy a pair of rugger galoshes. OTOH, if my goal was to have a gun that didn't show wear, I'd buy a Glock - it's already so ugly that how can you tell?

How much wear the finish on a gun shows depends on the type of finish, and has nothing to do with the cost of the gun. Hard chrome is the hardest and toughest finish; two of my 1911s are hard chromed and look like new after many thousands of rounds. Ditto for the nitrided finish on my Nighthawk's slide; the stainless frame clearly shows holster wear and scratches that come with 30K rounds and thousands of draws.

My P226 Legion SAO shows a very minor holster wear at the muzzle after 3,000+ rounds. No complaint. The P229 Legion is just beginning to show some traces of wear, but then it's only run a few hundred rounds so far.
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