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Legion Shooting High

This is a discussion on Legion Shooting High within the Legion Series forums, part of the SIG Sauer Pistols category; Originally Posted by DirtyRob Yeah looks good. A tad right, but no biggie. That's how it should shoot. You can't expect to get a group ...


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Old 03-01-2016, 03:17 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by DirtyRob View Post
Yeah looks good. A tad right, but no biggie. That's how it should shoot. You can't expect to get a group like that or better if your whole front sight post covers the target up. If you're sure you aren't inducing that right shift then that's where you could tap your front or rear sight to compensate.

I suppose if you're unhappy with the sight picture and vertical shift you're gonna have to get a different FSP or rear sight which they apparently make. You've got options.
Thank you for your input.

I agree, the right/left can be dealt with imo easier, but the shots elevating from POA is bugging me out, lol. I guess it's going to just be a wait and see, give it more rounds kind of thing. I'll take it out to the range one or two more times and see. Guessing, I could say heeling would have the same effect (1:00 spread). Predictability is what I'm looking for and I don't feel it with these sights though. Lol
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Old 03-01-2016, 08:26 AM   #32
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You know another factor could be the new xray sight dimensions. It may have been easier for you to gauge 'level' based on the 3 dots alone (since that's where you say you're aiming with sight picture 3). The sizes aren't the same now and you have to gauge if the left and right dot are equidistant from the upper/lower edges of this big green circle now (at least in the daytime).

They're more visible to use on the fly ... But again I've always tried to use the flat top edge as my measure and not the dots so much. Its a small degree of additional error, but who knows.

They wont let you exchange rear sights for a number lower or anything? I mean, if you're consistent where you're at ... Change em up. Don't worry about what they say is 'standard'. It sounds like it should be easily compensated for by changing the rear site and setting it a tad left when you do.
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Old 03-01-2016, 08:57 AM   #33
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DirtyRob,

I agree, I'm not too worried overall and my original posts were mainly to determine if there was an issue with the sights, or me, lol. I have no problem changing the sights to match what I see as sight picture to achieve easy targeting acquisition for what I'm used to. Lmao, I'm even toying with the idea of an extra slide, milled and reflex sight for range days

But you touched on something though that I have noticed this last trip out. As you have mentioned, it appears that aligning the top of the sights, may not also align the dots... Hmmmmm... As it is hard to focus on both clearly at the same time while shooting, I've found it difficult to validate this, but did notice it, again, thinking it's just me and I'm being too particular, lol. Definitely use the top of sights for aligning, so if dots are slightly off, that is most definitely the possible cause.

So here is where (I think) I am, I will give it another range visit or two. And then will make some sort of determination as to what I want to do. That leaves me with another question then, does anyone perceive a problem contacting Sig later to address the issue of sights POA/POI being off with 1,000+ rounds down the pipe? Should I contact them and initiate a case but reserve resolution now? I figured to not initiate anything until I know.

Thank you
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Old 03-01-2016, 09:39 AM   #34
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if you're all using the same sight picture, same poi.....should be using image #3.
Perfect advice my friend.
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Old 03-01-2016, 09:44 AM   #35
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Higher number, higher the hit. Front sight moves 1" per number, rear sight moves 2" per number change. From what you are describing, it should hit 6" high (combat ). Call SIG and get the right sights installed.
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Old 03-10-2016, 03:51 AM   #36
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Hmm ... this has me thinking about that barrel convert now (between 357 and 40).

Does anyone know how much a drop youll get from 357 using 8/8 if you fire a 40 through it? I'm pretty certain I was getting black by using "Sight image 2" (that's just how ive always shot anything ever is bisect with top of FSP). Hopefully the drop is only down the difference between "Sight image 2" and "Sight image 3" ... maybe 1-1.5in on paper?
For anyone curious, I tested this.

.357 (Sig's JHP Ammo) hits where it should at the top middle of the flat of FSP using 8/8 sights. The .40 barrel I put in places them up ~1.5" and .5" right using those same sights and 165gr Winchester FMJ target ammo.

Its completely usable in the current state and shot placement is easily compensated for (.357 will be the dead on accurate ... .40 will hit the plate ~centered at 25yds if I'm aimed lower 1/3). I wont adjust the sights since there is no half inch option for a happy medium. Maybe just use a gr weight higher in .40 ammo from my local trusted reloader or something.
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Old 04-07-2016, 01:14 PM   #37
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Dirty Rob, you could always file and refinish the sights, seeing as you use the tops... Just sayin

Ok, so update...

I've been to the range 4x since my last post. I've most definitely benefitted from the extra attention I've been paying to my technique as my groups have tightened nicely, lol. But now I'm at 1k rounds (+/-) and it's still impacting high using sight pic #3. I've allowed others to shoot it and they concur, the response has been the gun WANTS you to aim lower. In order to align (bullseye) correctly, I'm using sight pic#1 and will impact (bulleye) level at 15yds. If I got to #2 im about 2-3" high... Still a little right as well. Even when I bring it in to 8yds, looking straight down at the front sight, seeing the holes pop in the paper higher than where I'm aiming is bothersome. Not overly so, but it's there. I've used the same ammo throughout, Georgia Arms 125gr/1300fps FMJ, for consistency.

Ok so where to now?

Well, I called Sig CS today, (even though I'm still going to give it a few more trips to the range), to discus options. The rep was very nice and basically said that I can send it to them and they will bench (vice) it and see if it is shooting within spec. I did forget to ask what spec is, lol, just to hear it from the horses mouth. If out of spec, the will adjust the sights no cost. If "within" spec, they'll charge $55 shipping and $50 ammo fee... And for the Legion they only currently have #8 & #6 X-ray sights. So... I have limited options! Lol

Not too sure I'd be happy paying the $105 and then buying a new sight to get it where I want it, well close anyway as there's only one adjustment avaialble in the X-ray sights... Or, I could just buy and have them install the #6 sight (rear) straight up and avoid all the hub-bub... Could just save my $$$ and spend it on an L&M Reflex setup just for range time and Legion slide for carry : )

I don't do so well at restaraunts that have a bazillion options on the menu either, if you couldn't tell... Lol

Anyways, I just figured to update the thread.
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Old 04-07-2016, 01:21 PM   #38
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Or maybe you could just hold it where you need to hold in order to hit where you want it to hit? Not being snarky, but perhaps that's an option?
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Old 04-07-2016, 03:08 PM   #39
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Or maybe you could just hold it where you need to hold in order to hit where you want it to hit? Not being snarky, but perhaps that's an option?
Its an option. That's what ima stick with for now. My POI is @ image 1 with .40 and @ image 2 with .357SIG. I can live with that.
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Old 04-07-2016, 03:30 PM   #40
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It's snarky, no matter how you slice it or dice it, but that's ok, I know what you meant.

Nobody should have to aim 6" off their intended poi... Yeah, I can do it, IF that's what I was willing to submit to. Frankly, if advertised or spec's to sight pic #3, it should be sight pic #3! It's not, but thanks. Like I mentioned though, I will speak to CS again and see what their "spec" is, lol. Maybe their spec is (+/-)6"
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Old 04-07-2016, 03:36 PM   #41
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If it is true that your handgun actually has a POI of 6" over POA, then it is clearly not within spec. I'd send it back to SIG.

I had a 1911 that had to go back to Springfield to be fixed for shooting way low, and I had it vetted and tested by a 1911 gunsmith in a ransom rest, so there was no fuzz on the peach in terms of, "Is it me, or the gun?"
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Old 04-07-2016, 03:51 PM   #42
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It's snarky, no matter how you slice it or dice it, but that's ok, I know what you meant.

Nobody should have to aim 6" off their intended poi... Yeah, I can do it, IF that's what I was willing to submit to. Frankly, if advertised or spec's to sight pic #3, it should be sight pic #3! It's not, but thanks. Like I mentioned though, I will speak to CS again and see what their "spec" is, lol. Maybe their spec is (+/-)6"
yeah 6 might be a little bad. I'm more like 4" at 15-20yds. Its not too bad. Consistent still ... so I can work with consistent.
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Old 04-30-2016, 05:27 PM   #43
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Ok, well, there's been a few range trips since the last post, I still feel the Legion is shooting high. I have let others shoot it and recieved a concurring opinion. Have spoken to Sig CS as well, there are options but I'm on the fence. Here's the good and bad why...



This was today 8 yards, off hand, using Georgia Arms 125gr/1350fps... BUT using sight pic #1 - lollipop, pumpkin/stick, 6 O'Clock hold, top of sight aligned with the bottom of the inner "X" circle, just wow!... But NOT sight pic #3

But here's where it goes south...



Second pic is @20 yards. Yellow is sight pic #3 and started there. I then moved to sight pic #1 (Green) with top of front sight aligned with the bottom of the black circle... Both have bench rest rounds in them (first few of group) as well. Interesting as I like that I can shoot as decent offhand as rested position, but maddening because I really want it to shoot sight pic #3, but from today it is obvious, I should just accept where the gun wants me to aim, then it places nicely!

What to do, what to do?

I have said, the entire scenario has really helped my groupings because I've concentrated so much on my trigger, grip, follow up, etc., I'm loving it. But I'm wondering if it's worth it to have sights set where I want them and just deal with it for a while. It is apparent also, that using sight pic #3 causes me to pull Right a bit, whereas #1, is better centered.

Anyways, thoughts and opinions are appreciated on whether or not to change sights, or just work on bettering my shots. Don't be shy... Lol
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Old 05-01-2016, 04:51 AM   #44
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Jay from Maine here. Long time bullseye shooter, newbie to this site. I currently have a P226 TACOPS and a P226 SAO Legion. Almost all of my shooting revolves around bullseye and very little action pistol. I have fought and dealt with sight picture and sight alignment for the last 30 years. It doesn't seem to matter whether we are dealing with iron sights, red dot, or magnified, it always appears that when one person zeros a gun in, the person next to him will shoot the gun and it will be off no matter the proficiency level. My belief is and my opinion (certainly not medical fact) is everyones eye will interpret what is presented to it and the brain will react accordingly. I know it seems impossible. Iron sights are iron sights. You line them up, get your sight picture, then boom. Your right on, your buddy shoots the gun and its off. Or vice versa. With iron, I have noticed that POI changes when you go from bench resting the gun vs holding the gun. It changes overtime for me. I've learned over the years to rough in a gun on the bench, then fine tune while holding the gun. We can't do that with the Legend. They are non adjustable.

Your Legion is shooting with a very similar POI as mine FWIW. In Bullseye, we generally use 6 O'Clock hold using iron. It gives you a better sight picture. The front sight post doesn't get "lost" in the black. This puts our Legions dead on out to 25 yards. I know most people are saying this isn't a bullseye gun. No it isn't. But with well tuned ammo, I just finished a 12 week postal league match series with my SAO and finished 2nd in the state shooting against $3000. wadcutter guns. At 25 yards and less, this gun is capable of awesome groups.

At 20 yards your group is slightly right. Re-adjust your grip on the gun. Double check your finger placement on the trigger. Its probably you. The gun like mine is sighted for 6 O'Clock hold for "our eyes". Changing ammo will also change point of impact. Thats a whole other topic. Hope this helped a little.
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Old 05-01-2016, 05:53 AM   #45
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I had a similar issue with my M11-A1. Was grouping great, but a couple inches high at 7-10 yds. Had #8 front and rear. Had Sig pro shop look at it and they replaced the rear to a #6 and it's absolutely perfect for me now.
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