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How to Determine Original (Old) vs Revised (New) Main Spring Housing
Here is a table of the MSH and sear spring versions; Gen 1 and Gen 2 part numbers and nomenclature.
There are gaps in the info that I have (highlighted in yellow); if anyone has a sales order or packaging for those items and could post the part number, I'll update the table.
There are two G10 MSH versions that haven't been released for retail sale (highlighted in orange). If anyone is successful placing and order for them, please post that and I'll update the table.
Is Sig now replacing them? I spoke with them early in the summer, they offered to replace the MSH but said it would be the same part that was in it. I told them I'd wait till they had a real fix for the issue....Has that time arrived?
I believe that the time has come. Since July, several members have sent their 938s in for warranty repair and had them returned with the Gen 2 spring and MSH installed. Several members have also reported taking delivery of new 938s with July 2015 production dates or later with the Gen 2 hardware installed.
Sig hasn't actually issued a recall on the old MSH have they? I looked at my P238 last night and discovered the "old style" MSH. It didn't appear to show any burr developing but did have a little more spacing toward the top side of the hole. I haven't called Sig {yet} - is there any reason to do so especially if they haven't issued an official recall and the wear doesn't appear to be excessive. Probably wouldn't hurt to give them a call, eh?
I do not believe that SIG intends to issue a recall. I was told that the new hardware would be fielded as a warranty claim. My advice is to make a call and ask for a replacement.
Hello all...I'm new here and this is my first post. I just bought a P938 Extreme, with the G10 grips..Build date on the box was Aug 27 2015. According to the pics here, my gun has the new style spring with the larger hole. So it is available in the reptile G10.
This site is great, really glad I found it. This is my first Sig purchase, and it has been an amazing shooter so far. I read about extractors breaking and guide rods coming loose. My GR is very tight, I couldn't get it to turn. My grip screws had loctite from the factory. I removed my extractor and polished it slightly where it contacts the rim, basically removed the black coating, and polished it where it touches the slide. It has not skipped a beat, no FTF/FTE with any type ammo, 115, 124, 147...all shot great. both ball and HP. It does have the loose round in the mag issue, but my G19 (that I traded in to but my 938 ) did this also, just not as bad. I'll deal with that if it becomes an issue.
I'll keep looking around the site and learning from the group, lots of good reading so far.
Hmmm. I wonder if Sig does much testing on their designs before they go into production. Have a P238 from 2014 with the old design, guess I will give Sig CS a call...again. Good thing I have the number on speed dial.
PCHS4, if you make contact with them, would you please post the results of that exchange? I have an old style P238 I've be meaning to check with them too and just haven't had the chance to do it yet.
Took delivery of new 938-EQ last month with a build date of 6-28-15. After only ~150 rds of 115gr I became aware of the sear spring migrating upward and MSH detent post wear (thanks to ThnkFrst). Called Sig CS this AM and explained the situation. Gave rep the serial number, he asked if there were any failures, I said not yet, and without any hesitation he asked for my addresses. He said it would be best to send the pistol in so they can give it a thorough going over, and I'll have it back in less than 2 weeks. I had the shipping label/RMA within 5 minutes.
Bottom line: because of this fine site and helpful members I learned of a potential failure in a new carry gun and am having it repaired before a problem can develop. IMO, these weapons were not designed to be target pistols and failure could have dire consequences. There should be a recall issued since Sig is obviously aware of the problem.
silverdollaral,
I think it's good that you are sending your pistol in. My P938 has the Gen1 MSH/SS and I can tell you that I have zero wear on my detent post. I MEAN ZERO and I've put 500 rounds through this gun in under a month. I feel that their is definitely more going on than the crappy MSH design (which the Gen1 was a bad design period) or else it would happen in everyone's guns. Not just some here and there. I'd say that it is a culmination of issues that cause that problem. All that being said, I still like to err on the side of caution and go for the new better design. I called Sig, and like you, they were very nice to me. I told them I was having no issues or wear but wanted the new part since it was an improvement and they mailed it out to me. I should have it today when I get home from work. Better safe than sorry. The new design is much more stout and well thought out.
Zero wear after 500 rounds is a very interesting bit of info Genin. Good to hear they treated you right.
Though I'm not yet entirely familiar with the operation of all parts involved, 45 years as a model maker taught me that the proper material, and heat treating when called for, makes a huge difference in part life from one batch to another. In today's climate of hurry up and cut cost, the inspection and testing process is key. Especially in products that could be called on to save lives.
So far, that's been my experience too (on my P238). I've shot just over 500 rounds through it and visually inspected the wear; I see no indications of wear on the hole or the post. I noted the post tends to reside just slightly towards the bottom side of the hole (but nothing excessive or what would appear out of the ordinary). However I will probably still make the call in order to have the latest design.
Question. My P938 has been back to Sig already for service due to FTE issues. They did some ramp polishing and replaced the guide rod as the old one would loosen up. I haven't had any issues after this fix. Recently, I noticed that the trigger pull seems excessive, perhaps more than the 8.5lb spec. Is there any relationship to the MSH housing/sear spring issue to the trigger pull? Yes, I did inspect per the pictures and I clearly see the burr/gap forming. Since this is my EDC gun, I'm getting concerned with it's reliability.
If the sear spring gets high enough in the assembly, the back of the ejector can start to catch under the spring and this can cause a gritty feel in the trigger and increase the pull IMO. Here's a pic to describe what I'm talking about:
It's time to call SIG and have your unit sent in for the MSH/sear spring upgrade.
At about 200 rounds the only problem I have had is with my reloads. All the factory rounds function great. I'm new to reloading 9MM and wanted to see if a few bullets that did not gauge would work in the gun. They did not.
Had a weird fail to fire. I had forgotten that I put a few out of spec rounds in my first mag. It seemed to go into battery and then when I pulled the trigger, no boom. I found it odd that it might not have been fully in battery and still the hammer dropped.
I dropped the mag and attempted to rack the slide, but it would not budge.........I thought I broke something. Finally after jiggling it a bit more, I pulled the hammer back, and pulled the trigger, it fired. This happened twice.........both times reloads.
It seemed to go into battery and then when I pulled the trigger, no boom. I found it odd that it might not have been fully in battery and still the hammer dropped.
I dropped the mag and attempted to rack the slide, but it would not budge.........I thought I broke something. Finally after jiggling it a bit more, I pulled the hammer back, and pulled the trigger, it fired. This happened twice.........both times reloads.
I've had the exact same experience, also twice within the first 500 rounds I've fired in my P238 (380 ACP) however this was with factory new Blazer ammo. Not exactly a confidence building experience with an EDC weapon! Same exact experience: slide wouldn't budge; messed around with it a bit (magazine had been dropped, but live round chambered) manually pulled the hammer back and got it to fire after a couple of attempts. No way to intentionally try and duplicate the condition. I had wondered if maybe it was a weak recoil spring (?) but my gun had been bought new, so that doesn't seem likely. Haven't experienced the problem in about 200 rounds now.
Somehow that doesn't surprise me. Once a gun manufacturer issues an official "recall notice" I suspect that opens an entirely different set of "liability" doors than does a much more simple "warranty repair." (Not to mention keeping the change on the QT).
I am picking up a new P938 SAS tomorrow and I am glad I stumbled across this thread. I'll check the born on date and MSH to see if it has the new or old part.
I shoot quite a bit more than most people and have fired over 2,000 rounds through my Glock 43 since I picked it up at the end of July. I intend to treat the P938 the same way, weather permitting.
I have read reports of people shooting a lot of trouble free rounds through their P938 and others who say they have had a lot of problems. I have my fingers crossed and hope I made the right choice for a concealed carry firearm.
Update: I picked up the P938 and it has a born on date of 19-Oct-2015. Naturally, the mainspring housing and sear spring are the newer versions. The first 100 rounds fired were trouble free.
I am picking up a new P938 SAS tomorrow and I am glad I stumbled across this thread. I'll check the born on date and MSH to see if it has the new or old part.
Update: I picked up the P938 and it has a born on date of 19-Oct-2015. Naturally, the mainspring housing and sear spring are the newer versions. The first 100 rounds fired were trouble free.
Seems the P938 had a few issues that are mostly (if not all) resolved on newer ones. I'll be purchasing a 938 Equinox soon and I've been looking for what the "fixed date" is.
My P238, S/N 27B166186, is dated June 15, 2015, and has the old MSH and spring; I've only put about 200 rounds through it, and it shows no wear. I'll keep an eye on it and send it in if I see any sign of wear.
ThnkFrst can correct me, but I'm not aware of MSH issues with the 238. Just out of curiosity, are they changing those too? With all the time I spend reading this forum I should know
I posted my experience with Sig CS (in a different forum) a few weeks ago concerning the MSH issue with the P238. The short version is, Sig has had no failure complaints regarding the P238 model so updating the MSH to the new design IS NOT covered under warranty for the 380ACP model. It can be done (obviously) but the customer would have to pay for it (and shipping charges of $55 isn't covered also). I didn't ask how much they would charge to swap out the old MSH design for the new one.
Interesting thread. I took off the left grip this morning and confirmed my 938 has Gen 1 (manufacture date June 2015). The gun only has ~80 rounds through it but I will check tonight for any wear.
I called Sig and the rep repeated that (a) this is not a mandatory upgrade but (b) I could send it in and they'd have their gunsmith inspect to see if the replacement is needed -- if so it would be treated as a warranty repair.
I feel like if I send it in now, new, they'll say nothing is wrong and send it back. Any thoughts?
If Sig has gone to the trouble to incorporate a new design into their production guns (a tacit admission that something wasn't quite right with the "old" design), you'd think they wouldn't hesitate retrofitting the existing customer base. It's those customers' purchases that have gotten them this far! And when you combine the idea that most people are buying this model, P938 (& P238), primarily for "last resort" life saving, self-defensive purposes again, you'd think they [Sig] would want the most reliable product version possible out there in the hands of their customers! (If for no other reason than as an additional safeguard against liability lawsuits).
I don't like the nagging little doubt in the back of my mind concerning my EDC (P238) this situation has left me with. Of course taking Sig's word at face value, there is nothing for me to worry about with my P238: it's reliable (which is why they don't offer warranty coverage for that model). I suppose there's always the option, I could pay for the change out myself - a minimum 20% cost of the price I paid for the gun new. Undoubtedly I'll either "get over" the nagging little doubt OR I'll sell it and move on (having bought my first and last Sig). I, for one, am less a fan of Sig Sauer now than I was before.
Yep, they sent the label. Anyone have a suggestion on what I should write in my "brief note to the gunsmith" to further my chances of getting the MSH replaced?
Thanks for the advice! For what it's worth, here's what I'm sending:
I have sent in my pistol referenced above for warranty replacement of the main spring housing (MSH) and sear spring. I purchased the pistol in January, and learned shortly thereafter of potential long term wear issues with the “older” MSH design. I removed the left grip and confirmed my pistol has the older version.
I did a lot of research and chose Sig Sauer because of your reputation for quality. I purchased this pistol for self defense and it will be my carry weapon. I have only put less than 100 rounds through so far and there is no sign of wear, but I will be shooting this pistol a lot at the range and it’s extremely important to me that the gun be as reliable and durable as possible. This is the reason why I’m requesting that the MSH be replaced with the newer (more reliable) version.
Thank you very much.
-------
Edit: Update -- they have my pistol...now crossing my fingers...
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