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What ammunition do you use for self defense?

This is a discussion on What ammunition do you use for self defense? within the P250 & P320 Modular Pistols forums, part of the SIG Sauer Pistols category; I carry federal Guard Dog 105 gr. Seems to be a pretty good round....


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P250 & P320 Modular Pistols P250, P320, and Exchange kits

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Old 03-20-2017, 08:04 AM   #46
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I carry federal Guard Dog 105 gr. Seems to be a pretty good round.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:26 AM   #47
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I use Federal HST's. 147 Grn in my 9mm, 230 in my .45 ACP


Take a look at this guy's YouTube channel for some comprehensive tests

ShootingTheBull410 on YouTube
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Last edited by Deaver; 03-20-2017 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:41 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaver View Post
I use Federal HST's. 147 Grn in my 9mm, 230 in my .45 ACP

Take a look at this guy's YouTube channel for some comprehensive tests
His videos convinced me to change to the HST 124gr, specifically because his testing is done for 3" barrel pistols. That he tests with the P938 was a bonus for me.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:03 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by cookietrash View Post
Anyone have more info on Golden Sabre?

Just purchased my first carry pistol (P320 subcompact) and that's what was highly recommended to me by both my friend who works at the shop and the friends that came with me. It was on sale, too, which was nice.
I would suggest to only get the 124gr +P BONDED ammo. I have fired regular Golden Saber and I have seem many separation of the jacket.

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Old 03-20-2017, 12:27 PM   #50
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So, as a new shooter with very little experience with ammunition, how much of the personal protection ammo should you shoot while at the range? I've read that you should practice at the range what you intend to carry, and this makes sense.

I've only been shooting pistols since the beginning of February 2017 and own one firearm, a 9mm that I purchased on 2-24-17. I have shot over 2300 rounds through it so far, mostly 9mm reman (115gr FMJ, $50/250) that is sold at the range. I have, however, shot 2 boxes (40 rounds) of Sig Sauer 124gr Elite V-Crown JHP ($20/20). What I am concerned with is the cost difference between "practice" or "range" rounds and "defense" rounds. How do I become proficient when it is so much more expensive per round to shoot the defense rounds? Am I worrying about something that really does not matter?
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:29 PM   #51
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His videos convinced me to change to the HST 124gr, specifically because his testing is done for 3" barrel pistols. That he tests with the P938 was a bonus for me.
Same here, HST 124gr. I either carry my 938 or 320. Since the 938 is the weakest link with its short barrel, I chose the ammo that performs best in it. One type of SD ammo for both guns makes it easy.

I may try some of the more exotic 9mm some day like the super fast lightweight bullets that Underwood makes. I haven't really researched them enough though and am quite comfortable that HSTs will do the job.

I also use HST in 45.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:20 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by macadamia View Post
So, as a new shooter with very little experience with ammunition, how much of the personal protection ammo should you shoot while at the range? I've read that you should practice at the range what you intend to carry, and this makes sense.

I've only been shooting pistols since the beginning of February 2017 and own one firearm, a 9mm that I purchased on 2-24-17. I have shot over 2300 rounds through it so far, mostly 9mm reman (115gr FMJ, $50/250) that is sold at the range. I have, however, shot 2 boxes (40 rounds) of Sig Sauer 124gr Elite V-Crown JHP ($20/20). What I am concerned with is the cost difference between "practice" or "range" rounds and "defense" rounds. How do I become proficient when it is so much more expensive per round to shoot the defense rounds? Am I worrying about something that really does not matter?
Yeah - Sure it's a good question!! I mean, 9mm range ammo is ~0.20+/rd and HST or Gold Dot's ~$0.40+/rd. But, we really do need to run our defensive ammo too.

First, you need to be totally confident that your pistol runs your defensive ammo with zero failures. That means initially feeding as much of those more expensive rounds as it takes to be SURE of its reliability.

Then after selecting your defensive cartridge, you'll need to shoot it regularly enough to maintain it's feel in your hands, so you're deadly with that ammo in your pistol within say 10 yards.

For me, in a new gun I'll run a couple hundred rounds initially. New SIGs need these hotter rounds for break-in too. If NO failures, then I'm happy it's a good setup. Then couple times a month, I'll run a mag or 2 of my defensive ammo at the range, before loading a hundred of so of range ammo.

Also, it's good to find a reasonable feeling range ammo too. In 9mm, at least half of my range stuff is either 124g Lawman or American Eagle, because these have recoils that feel closer to my defensive loads...

Cheers

Last edited by kansascity45; 03-20-2017 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:56 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macadamia View Post
So, as a new shooter with very little experience with ammunition, how much of the personal protection ammo should you shoot while at the range? I've read that you should practice at the range what you intend to carry, and this makes sense.

I've only been shooting pistols since the beginning of February 2017 and own one firearm, a 9mm that I purchased on 2-24-17. I have shot over 2300 rounds through it so far, mostly 9mm reman (115gr FMJ, $50/250) that is sold at the range. I have, however, shot 2 boxes (40 rounds) of Sig Sauer 124gr Elite V-Crown JHP ($20/20). What I am concerned with is the cost difference between "practice" or "range" rounds and "defense" rounds. How do I become proficient when it is so much more expensive per round to shoot the defense rounds? Am I worrying about something that really does not matter?
Don't worry about using up expensive ammunition at the range. use it enough that you are confident that what you choose to carry will function smoothly, and albeit accurately in your pistol. FMJ is pretty functional, and sometimes extreme hollowpoints can give some pistols fits.

Years ago our Sheriff's Office issued us Glocks in .40 S&W. We shot a lot of range ammo and none of it was what we carried, other than to just "see" how well it worked and had any issues. ALL of our ammo was FMJ we shot.

Now, personally, I shoot FMJ ammo at the range, and never mix in any shooting of the premium carry ammo. I know when it would come to the time, that all I care about is if it functions or not. Finding out that a certain style of hollow point ammo jams or fails to feed or other at a time of defenidng your life or others is not a good time to find this out. You will already be stressed enough, and trying to deal with that may be fatal.

That said, when I was carrying my Taurus Millennium GII 9mm some months back and got home I saw a wood chuck that had been digging under out out buildings. Rather than run inside for the 6.8SPC or a .22 rifle I was close enough to just shoot him with the pistol. I used Golden Saber 9mm, and as it turned out, it was one shot, one kill. No more digging up the yard. He was around 30 feet or so.

Now I would advocate that your shooting should probably be closer to 15 to 21 feet for the majority of shooting. Especially if you are all over the paper out there at 15 yards or more. It is better to get good hits in the bulls eye at a distance you will likely encounter your shootout. FBI has a rule of 3. The average gun battle is 3 feet , and over in 3 seconds and average of 3 rounds are fired.

Having to shoot to defend yourself at long distance become a real nightmare for your defense attorney. If you shoot someone with a knife at 7 feet, let's say, you could be more easily justified than if that same guy was 30 feet away, which really wouldn't pose an immediate threat to you. ( no knife throwing scenario involved).

So, just my opinion and like noses, we all have one, shoot more 9mm ammo, cheaper, and shoot some regular premium carry ammo once in a while to make sure all is well.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:20 PM   #54
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Ammo quest has a lot of good info. Here is another site with some more tests. Draw your own conclusions.
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...llistic-tests/
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:03 PM   #55
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Mr. Gibbs and Kansascity45 provide some good points.

I agree, ammo costs can be costly using your "carry" choice at the range. Here is what I do.

As I previously mentioned, I carry Federal 147 grain HST's for my 9mm which can cost ~.50 a squeeze. They have a Muzzle Velocity of 1050 feet per second and a Muzzle Energy of 360 in Foot Pounds.

At the range. I will use Federal American Eagle 9MM 147 Grain FMJ. They have a Muzzle Velocity of 960 feet per second and a Muzzle Energy of 300 in Foot Pounds. These can cost ~.23 a squeeze

The difference is 90 feet per second or ~10% and 60 Foot pounds

In the (I hope never happens) heat of the moment, I am not sure I would feel the 10% difference but rather my practice to pay off

Try to find ammo by looking at the ballistics info on the different Mfr's sites for the ammo you choose to carry and look for something cheaper with similar properties. Keep in mind, different Mfg's provide more accurate info than others but close enough for these exercises
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:08 PM   #56
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JohnK1987 is right on with his link. Best prices, good selection, and great shipping. Great place to save bucks.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:17 PM   #57
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The 9mm is 124gr Speer Gold Dots...The 357Sig is 124gr Speer Gold Dots...The 45ACP is mostly 230gr Federal HST.

I carry a S&W 340PD a lot with 38 Special Hornady FTX.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:19 PM   #58
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NOT reloads!!
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Old 03-22-2017, 11:02 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibbs View Post
Don't worry about using up expensive ammunition at the range. use it enough that you are confident that what you choose to carry will function smoothly, and albeit accurately in your pistol. FMJ is pretty functional, and sometimes extreme hollowpoints can give some pistols fits.

Years ago our Sheriff's Office issued us Glocks in .40 S&W. We shot a lot of range ammo and none of it was what we carried, other than to just "see" how well it worked and had any issues. ALL of our ammo was FMJ we shot.

Now, personally, I shoot FMJ ammo at the range, and never mix in any shooting of the premium carry ammo. I know when it would come to the time, that all I care about is if it functions or not. Finding out that a certain style of hollow point ammo jams or fails to feed or other at a time of defenidng your life or others is not a good time to find this out. You will already be stressed enough, and trying to deal with that may be fatal.

That said, when I was carrying my Taurus Millennium GII 9mm some months back and got home I saw a wood chuck that had been digging under out out buildings. Rather than run inside for the 6.8SPC or a .22 rifle I was close enough to just shoot him with the pistol. I used Golden Saber 9mm, and as it turned out, it was one shot, one kill. No more digging up the yard. He was around 30 feet or so.

Now I would advocate that your shooting should probably be closer to 15 to 21 feet for the majority of shooting. Especially if you are all over the paper out there at 15 yards or more. It is better to get good hits in the bulls eye at a distance you will likely encounter your shootout. FBI has a rule of 3. The average gun battle is 3 feet , and over in 3 seconds and average of 3 rounds are fired.

Having to shoot to defend yourself at long distance become a real nightmare for your defense attorney. If you shoot someone with a knife at 7 feet, let's say, you could be more easily justified than if that same guy was 30 feet away, which really wouldn't pose an immediate threat to you. ( no knife throwing scenario involved).

So, just my opinion and like noses, we all have one, shoot more 9mm ammo, cheaper, and shoot some regular premium carry ammo once in a while to make sure all is well.
Thank you for the response. I practice at 3 yrds and can place 5 shots in a silver dollar-sized group. I'm working on my speed, presenting from holster and am getting quicker. My two-shot drill is helping with my speed. I use a shot timer and attempt to place two shots in the thoracic cavity within two seconds. I can get both within two seconds once in a while, but am more concerned to keep the shots within the thoracic cavity. My accuracy is good and getting better.

Thanks again for your post, I appreciate it!
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Old 03-22-2017, 11:09 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaver View Post
Mr. Gibbs and Kansascity45 provide some good points.

I agree, ammo costs can be costly using your "carry" choice at the range. Here is what I do.

As I previously mentioned, I carry Federal 147 grain HST's for my 9mm which can cost ~.50 a squeeze. They have a Muzzle Velocity of 1050 feet per second and a Muzzle Energy of 360 in Foot Pounds.

At the range. I will use Federal American Eagle 9MM 147 Grain FMJ. They have a Muzzle Velocity of 960 feet per second and a Muzzle Energy of 300 in Foot Pounds. These can cost ~.23 a squeeze

The difference is 90 feet per second or ~10% and 60 Foot pounds

In the (I hope never happens) heat of the moment, I am not sure I would feel the 10% difference but rather my practice to pay off

Try to find ammo by looking at the ballistics info on the different Mfr's sites for the ammo you choose to carry and look for something cheaper with similar properties. Keep in mind, different Mfg's provide more accurate info than others but close enough for these exercises
When I go to the range this weekend, I'll purchase my requisite 250 reman loads for practice and I'll buy a couple of boxes of 124gr and a couple of boxes of 147gr to check out.

What are your suggestions for regular pressure vs +P ammo? I do not believe I would really benefit from +P ammo because I have a 5" barrel. Isn't the +P ammo designed to help the shorter barrel guns with the FPS of the bullet?
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