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Sig Being Sued By Steyr Over 320?

This is a discussion on Sig Being Sued By Steyr Over 320? within the P250 & P320 Modular Pistols forums, part of the SIG Sauer Pistols category; This will be settled. Some money will change hands. It will quietly go away. It's not worth it to Steyr OR SIG to push this ...


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Old 05-13-2017, 12:31 PM   #31
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This will be settled. Some money will change hands. It will quietly go away.

It's not worth it to Steyr OR SIG to push this to the point where it might get the US Military contract cancelled.
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Old 05-13-2017, 01:04 PM   #32
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This will be settled. Some money will change hands. It will quietly go away.

It's not worth it to Steyr OR SIG to push this to the point where it might get the US Military contract cancelled.
I don't think money will change hands but I do agree with BBMW that the clutching at straws and teeth gnashing will go away. The Government contract is done. There is a zero percent chance of it being "cancelled". It was essentially a 3 year process (it's a gun, not a nuclear submarine fgs) and no one is signing off on cancelling a pistol buy of all things. Steyr is a proxy stooge for the contract non awardee/runner up and they are running parallel path to make it prickly for Sig. They remind me of the "resistance" conjured up by a soon to be defunct social services broker aka the DNC. Selling guns is a capitalist avocation, not a subsidized "it's not fair" disbursement to the losers. Uncle Sam wanted a pistol and picked what they felt met their needs and specs. Make a better mousetrap next time if you came up short on this one. Kwitcher bellyaching before you become the Buffalo Bills or Minnesota Vikings (no disrespect to those loyal, venerable fan bases).
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Old 05-13-2017, 01:27 PM   #33
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Gee, I guess they missed the P250 and its removable chassis.
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Old 05-13-2017, 01:39 PM   #34
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It's gonna cost SIG on the front side or the back side - I don't think there's a get off cheap option. Steyr's patent would have to be ruled invalid (however unlikely that would be), or SIG's products ruled to not be infringing.

The courts may hold that SIG infringed on Steyr's patent/s with their plastic, modular, removable or serialized fire control unit. Should that occur, it will likely cost SIG dearly to license Steyr's patent/s to continue to manufacture the P320. They would typically also have to pay royalties on their previously sold and infringing guns as well.

If there's any good news for SIG, Steyr's patent was filed in August of '99. If it is a utility patent, then it is good for 20 years from filing. So much or the patent term is up, which may have Steyr going for a lump sum settlement.
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Old 05-13-2017, 08:55 PM   #35
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It's gonna cost SIG on the front side or the back side - I don't think there's a get off cheap option. Steyr's patent would have to be ruled invalid (however unlikely that would be), or SIG's products ruled to not be infringing.

The courts may hold that SIG infringed on Steyr's patent/s with their plastic, modular, removable or serialized fire control unit. Should that occur, it will likely cost SIG dearly to license Steyr's patent/s to continue to manufacture the P320. They would typically also have to pay royalties on their previously sold and infringing guns as well.

If there's any good news for SIG, Steyr's patent was filed in August of '99. If it is a utility patent, then it is good for 20 years from filing. So much or the patent term is up, which may have Steyr going for a lump sum settlement.
Even if the primary argument used by Sig was that the gun was in production since 2014, the patent holder has six years to sue from the time that infringement was known. That would be great for Steyr if only for two other inconvenient truths. The P250 as the nearly equivalent precursor to the 320 and the suit Steyr brought against Berreta seemed specifically levied for their firearm's entry into the contract RFP that Sig was eventually awarded. Why not name Sig then? Now we know.

Do we really believe that the Government Proc lawyers didn't know about the Beretta suit and Sig's design and not factor in any contract jeopardy by going with Sig? Not naive enough to think that a settlement is out of the question considering more than 90% of infringement cases never get to a judges decision, or in a majority of cases never even see a judge, but Steyr is suing the Government by default in addition to Sig on this one. If the Government specs were met by Sig on an existing production firearm then the overarching argument would be that the Government was somehow complicit in the infringement.

This case is a prime example of what the can't do's attempt to do when the can do's get it done. If the expensive, painful, and cumbersome contracting process weren't bad enough, the guy who emerges from the giant mud puddle with the "award" at the end of the torturous path now gets kicked in the nuts by the kid who never broke a sweat. I never thought I'd wish this on anyone but I hope an audit awaits and the Feds crawl up their keester with a microscope.

Intellectual property for a decade and a half old invention of a hand held cylinder that throws lead downrange are not exactly quantum leaps. IP for a pistol at this point is like virginity in a whorehouse. There ain't much of it and what there is left of it won't last long. Btw Steyr, some guy named John Browning is on line 3 and he seems angry.
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Old 05-13-2017, 10:12 PM   #36
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Doing what any good company does , protecting their IP.
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:45 PM   #37
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but I'm certain they are farting in the wind.
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Old 05-14-2017, 06:49 AM   #38
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[QUOTE=yellowlt7;2374202]Doing what any good company does , protecting their IP.[/QUOT

I guess. I was thinking a "good" company would have come out swinging on infringement back in 2014. Crazy talk though when litigation is your actual strategy.
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:26 PM   #39
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Time will tell:
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:45 PM   #40
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[quote=Scorpionbowl;2375018]
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowlt7 View Post
Doing what any good company does , protecting their IP.[/QUOT

I guess. I was thinking a "good" company would have come out swinging on infringement back in 2014. Crazy talk though when litigation is your actual strategy.
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:50 PM   #41
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http://www.defensenews.com/articles/...s-on-autopilot
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:55 PM   #42
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Hope the link is good reading. Even the Army is crying uncle on the self licking ice cream cones for keep sold incumbents and butt sore contract non awardees. The contracting and protest processes are broken and tough love reform is the real answer. Everyone in DoD acquisition and procurement knows this but like many things that are big Government, don't hold our collective breaths fellow taxpayers.
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Old 05-17-2017, 02:21 PM   #43
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I wouldn't guess that Sig is overly concerned about the lawsuit. Sig has a patent for their FCU/chassis, and their filing and publishing dates predate Steyr's filing date and publishing date, though Steyr does have an earlier "priority date," which means Steyr has an earlier foreign patent filing.

Some similarities with the two patents, and some differences. The biggest difference is a difference in utility. With the Sig, the removable unit is the firearm itself; with the Steyr, the removable unit is part of the firearm. That's a huge difference.


Here are the patents (pay attention to the dates):

Sig:
https://www.google.com/patents/US6234059

Steyr:
https://www.google.com/patents/US6260301



Lastly, even though Steyr's foreign patent predates Sig's patent, the novelty of Steyr's patent, as it relates to Sig's, is questionable in light of Kel-Tec's 1995 production of the P-11.



P-11/P-40 and P-32/P-3AT Disassembly
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