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Grayguns Adjustable Trigger - Where did I go wrong?

This is a discussion on Grayguns Adjustable Trigger - Where did I go wrong? within the SIG Sauer Pistols forums, part of the SIG Sauer Forum category; Hi everyone - I'm a new member and own a Sig Sauer P229R. I have previously installed the SRT kit and G10 grips, but other ...


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Old 11-27-2016, 09:52 PM   #1
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Grayguns Adjustable Trigger - Where did I go wrong?

Hi everyone - I'm a new member and own a Sig Sauer P229R. I have previously installed the SRT kit and G10 grips, but other than this it is a stock pistol. Now, onto my question.

I recently installed a Grayguns adjustable trigger (P-SAIT) and was working on adjusting the set screw when I realized... the set screw is doing nothing to shorten the overtravel of the trigger, because when I turn the screw 1/4 turn CCW beyond the single action release, the backside of the trigger is at that point hitting the frame, making the overtravel adjustment meaningless. After 200 rounds at this minimum recommended set-point, there is a slight marring of the finish on the trigger and the frame from contact. Based on my research of forum threads this does not seem to be a shared problem (or nobody seems to notice/care?), so I'm here to ask you for your knowledge and wisdom on the matter. Have you had similar issues? Do you know what I've done incorrect?

I'm realizing that the unadjusted overtravel is so minimal that adjustment of it is overkill for me personally. I prefer the Grayguns trigger over the stock trigger so I've simply removed the set screw for now. Still, it seems like an adjustable trigger should be adjustable before the trigger naturally bottoms out on the frame.

I appreciate your advice and suggestions,
Nick
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Old 11-30-2016, 06:57 PM   #2
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So does anyone have any thoughts on this?
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Old 11-30-2016, 07:06 PM   #3
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welcome from ID, no clue, don't have one, someone here should know, just keep bumping it up if you don't get a response.
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Old 11-30-2016, 08:36 PM   #4
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I would get in touch with Gray Guns to see if they can provide guidance. I am aware of the P-SAIT, but have no experience with it.
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Old 11-30-2016, 10:28 PM   #5
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Was my impression too on the 226 & 229, can't really tell any difference between those on the Legions with or my others without. I wouldn't spend any money to change out any of mine to the Grayguns ones.
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Old 11-30-2016, 10:56 PM   #6
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First off, as long as you are in a position of having a perceived problem, I would generally ignore what GrayGuns says about only using 1/4 turn. In every manufacturing and assembly process there is that odd duck that sneaks by and perhaps you have one that needs a few more/less rotations than normal. Just be aware of your starting point and inspect the setscrew for having enough threads still embedded in the trigger when you are done to ensure it does not fall out.

That said, if I was in this position, I'd run down to the auto parts store and get a set of those old-time feeler gauges that folks used to use to set spark plugs before they came up with the new tapered gauge. You know, the ones with thin strips of different thicknesses of calibrated metal.

Once I had that tool in hand, I would take the slide off and insert the gauge under the set screw, pull the trigger and see whether or not you can pull the feeler gauge out with various thicknesses. With this method you can see if/how much the screw is affecting the trigger over-travel ..if at all.

That said, like any machine, your gun is manufactured to certain tolerances. It may very well be that for your particular gun and trigger, everything is "within spec" but perhaps one component is in spec to the plus side of dead-on, while another is to the minus side of dead-on. This could lead you to the situation where the "slop" that many of us experience is negated by those two items being slightly off and thus any adjustment is unnecessary. Either way, I wouldn't worry about it as long as you are happy with whatever insignificant amount of over-travel there is.

--Dave
(Sig Certified Armorer)
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Old 11-30-2016, 11:09 PM   #7
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How are you adjusting the trigger overtravel? I don't have a P-SAIT, but have installed overtravel stops on all my SIGs. The P-Series doesn't have a whole lot of SA overtravel to begin with, between the frame and the trigger, perhaps .040" or so.

With the screw turned CW on your P-SAIT so the trigger will not release sear, I assume you are backing set screw out so sear *just* releases, then a little bit more? How much further beyond sear release are instructions asking for and how much do you get before trigger hits frame?

Okay, I suggest repeating the set up, backing out screw, but stop when the sear just releases hammer. At this point is the trigger touching or almost touching the frame? If you hold trigger full back and pull hammer all the way back, then still holding trigger, swing hammer down a bit and back and forth, you are feeling to see if sear is being pulled away from hammer cock notch far enough to completely clear and not rubbing. It is rubbing, you can feel that as a slight resistance in the hammer movement. Back out set screw until you no longer feel the hammer rub against the sear - at this point is the trigger touching frame or can you even get this amount of sear to hammer clearance?

When you slowly pull SA trigger do you feel any creep between staging point and release, or is it nice and crisp (i.e trigger resistance abruptly increases at end of pre-travel, then stops and no longer perceptibly moves further aft as pull tension increase to point of sear release. Feeling for this creep can be enhanced by applying back tension on hammer (though not enough to move it back off sear) while you are pulling trigger slowly - repeat a few times.

The sear and hammer in your later gun are both MIM parts, there could be some variation in tolerances so that sear release is occurring slightly later than otherwise, though I haven't seen an example of this on the P226 or 9.

If you have a stock trigger too, it'd be interesting put them both on a common pivot shaft, line up upper trigger bar holes too, and compare dimensions at rear of trigger - how far back the rear of trigger goes.
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Old 12-02-2016, 09:56 AM   #8
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I installed a P-SAIT a couple of weeks ago in my new M11A1D. It's the first of this new version for me, although I've installed several of the P-SPITs. I followed the instructions and the trigger worked great at the range, basically like the P-SPITs. I suppose the Short Reset affects the over travel adjustment, but on mine the Reset is exactly right and works very well for me, so not worried about the over travel.

The only point where it touches the frame is almost immediately after the SA break. It appears to contact the rear of the trigger slot near the backside top of the trigger. It was close enough that I went ahead and blue Loctite'd the screw in. Gun shoots the same as my 229 SAS with the P-SPIT so I'm happy.

Last edited by Czechvar; 12-02-2016 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 12-02-2016, 01:31 PM   #9
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Perhaps I misunderstood you but I am not sure you are adjusting the trigger properly.

I have a P229 to which I added both the SRT sear/safety lever and the Grayguns P-SAIT trigger and I have had no trouble with it. I agree that the amount of over-travel with the standard trigger is pretty small, but I did find that the properly adjusted P-SAIT trigger reduced it and thus the reset distance by a perceptible amount.

The proper adjustment is to pull the SA trigger until the sear just releases the hammer and at that point, screw the set screw in until it contacts the frame. This might take a couple of goes until you are sure that the trigger just barely allows the sear to release. Once you have done that, back the screw out 1/4 turn to allow a bit of a safety margin to be certain that the trigger allows the sear to capture the hammer. Is that what you did?

In my pistol, the trigger comes close to the frame but does not contact it.
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Old 12-03-2016, 01:34 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beast12 View Post
First off, as long as you are in a position of having a perceived problem, I would generally ignore what GrayGuns says about only using 1/4 turn. In every manufacturing and assembly process there is that odd duck that sneaks by and perhaps you have one that needs a few more/less rotations than normal. Just be aware of your starting point and inspect the setscrew for having enough threads still embedded in the trigger when you are done to ensure it does not fall out.

Once I had that tool in hand, I would take the slide off and insert the gauge under the set screw, pull the trigger and see whether or not you can pull the feeler gauge out with various thicknesses. With this method you can see if/how much the screw is affecting the trigger over-travel ..if at all.

That said, like any machine, your gun is manufactured to certain tolerances. It may very well be that for your particular gun and trigger, everything is "within spec" but perhaps one component is in spec to the plus side of dead-on, while another is to the minus side of dead-on. This could lead you to the situation where the "slop" that many of us experience is negated by those two items being slightly off and thus any adjustment is unnecessary. Either way, I wouldn't worry about it as long as you are happy with whatever insignificant amount of over-travel there is.

--Dave
(Sig Certified Armorer)
Thanks Dave for your advice. I find that the screw does affect the very small amount of over travel. I determined this not with feeler gauges but visually by starting with the screw engaged fully in the trigger and holding the trigger down. I backed the screw off until the SA hammer release. At this point of adjustment there is a gap between the backside of the trigger and the frame. When I back the screw off an additional 1/4 turn, the trigger comes in contact with the frame. The amount of over travel I have to adjust is just equal to or slightly less than 1/4 turn of the set screw.

I think the fact that my stock trigger also contacts the frame alludes to manufacturing tolerances more than anything. The contact and wear doesn't bother me because it is minor and relatively hidden (and the fact that it's a carry pistol). I hadn't thought of tolerances as I was going through this process, so thanks for mentioning it.

I did lock-tite the set screw but don't feel comfortable leaving the screw so close to a position where the pistol could potentially not fire when the trigger is pulled (ignoring additional 1/4 turn past SA release).

In all honesty, I think I'm trying to solve a problem (amount of trigger over travel) that I don't have. This is an excellent product, but isn't a need I have. My "within tolerances" pistol seems to have reduced over travel already. The price I pay for it is minor frame to trigger contact.

Nick
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Old 12-03-2016, 01:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Czechvar View Post
I installed a P-SAIT a couple of weeks ago in my new M11A1D. It's the first of this new version for me, although I've installed several of the P-SPITs. I followed the instructions and the trigger worked great at the range, basically like the P-SPITs. I suppose the Short Reset affects the over travel adjustment, but on mine the Reset is exactly right and works very well for me, so not worried about the over travel.

The only point where it touches the frame is almost immediately after the SA break. It appears to contact the rear of the trigger slot near the backside top of the trigger. It was close enough that I went ahead and blue Loctite'd the screw in. Gun shoots the same as my 229 SAS with the P-SPIT so I'm happy.
This is exactly where my trigger makes contact with the frame after I make the 1/4 recommended turn after the SA break. My stock trigger contacts the frame below this point, about in the middle of the trigger.

With or without the screw, it doesn't change the over travel if I follow the 1/4 turn CCW after SA break recommendation. The frame is my new set screw to stop over travel, so to speak. Thanks for the input.
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Old 12-03-2016, 01:54 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by pblanc View Post
Perhaps I misunderstood you but I am not sure you are adjusting the trigger properly.

I have a P229 to which I added both the SRT sear/safety lever and the Grayguns P-SAIT trigger and I have had no trouble with it. I agree that the amount of over-travel with the standard trigger is pretty small, but I did find that the properly adjusted P-SAIT trigger reduced it and thus the reset distance by a perceptible amount.

The proper adjustment is to pull the SA trigger until the sear just releases the hammer and at that point, screw the set screw in until it contacts the frame. This might take a couple of goes until you are sure that the trigger just barely allows the sear to release. Once you have done that, back the screw out 1/4 turn to allow a bit of a safety margin to be certain that the trigger allows the sear to capture the hammer. Is that what you did?

In my pistol, the trigger comes close to the frame but does not contact it.
The method I used was to start with the the set screw well engaged and backed it off while holding the trigger. As I backed the screw off CCW slowly I stopped turning when the SA break occurred. From this point I turned the screw 1/4 turn CCW. To make sure I was as close to the absolute breaking point as possible I reset the screw slightly several times to fine tune the SA break point. I feel as though I captured located spot accurately, but as others have mentioned, tolerances are a good possibility here for my situation.

I'll redo my trigger set screw using your recommendations to see if I get a different result. Thanks for your input.
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