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-   -   A word of causion about using Froglube..... (http://sigtalk.com/sig-sauer-pistols/14839-word-causion-about-using-froglube.html)

Mystro 09-30-2013 10:29 AM

A word of causion about using Froglube.....
 
As many may know I have been highly recommending Froglube. The Sig Custom shop has Froglube on hand and it is a good product.....BUT.........
I have noticed a issue with using Froglube over the last year. I was very hesitant to post this until I did alot of my own testing. It has come to my attention that excess Froglube over time will get gummy and sticky. This isnt a problem because it is recommended to wipe off all Froglube, as per instructions, after treatment. Here is my issue,.. The problem occurs when treating a entire gun with Froglube. When you heat up the gun and use either the thin or thick version of Froglube, it migrates into your trigger, sear,springs,etc.... This initially is good thing because it protects and lubricates those parts. The problem is that you cant wipe off the excess....See where I am going with this..??;) This excess of Froglube over time becomes "sticky" which attracts dirt.:eek:...... I suspected this a month ago after 500 rounds through a few of my guns treated with Froglube. Both my P229's decocker's action would return slow as if treated with maple syrup. My only solution was to use my favorite CLP G96 to remove the Froglube from the internals of my guns. You would have to reapply Froglube all over and then the same stickiness would reoccur. I talked to Froglube directly about this and they said that any stickiness was caused by excess amounts of Froglube still present. So at this point.......It seemed counterproductive to constantly remove a product that would get gummy and sticky in hard to access parts of the gun. This means I could only use Froglube on my barrel and rails and out side of my gun.:huh: I want a system that works together. I started testing with Slip 2000 EWL oil and grease. The EWL is very similar to Froglube that it migrates into the pours of the metal and lubricates and prevents rust. The oil also can be used as a CLP much like Froglube. It is odorless and friendly on all materials. After a few months of using EWL, it has outperformed the Froglube simple by not getting sticky over time. It has migrated into my triggers and after a full tear down, all parts are still lubricated and clean with NO stickness. The difference with EWL is you can leave excess on or apply it and wipe it dry leaving a protective film much the way Froglube is suppose to work and can be used on all parts of the guns internals.

I am not pulling my endorsement of Froglube but wont recommend getting it into the internals of your gun.

I have already used this system with 7 of my guns that I shoot the most and the results are outstanding. The P938 is lightning fast. I will be switching all of my 27 handguns over to this system over the next month.
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...%20etc/ewl.jpg

Valdemar 09-30-2013 10:57 AM

Thank you for this bit of info. I have a feeling there are many who will be benefitted by it. You have done a selfless service to many and you could have just kept this to yourself and said nothing. Thank you for speaking up and informing the membership.


I've never used FL and never will. For a variety of reasons. This whole "lube mania" that has developed over the last few years really gets me chuckling. It appears plain and simple been caused by the decreasing technical awareness of the average shooter who more and more is less and less familiar with mechanical objects and thus more and more subject to belief in miracle cures for non-existent problems, especially in the presence of amazing claims by the purveyors of various wonder products.

Truth be known, by ease of application and by proof in testing, you would be as well off if you stuck with G96 for all your lube and protection needs in a pistol. No, better.

Or many cheap and available car lubricants.

For myself, I use my pistols {and rifles} under some of the worst conditions you can use weapons and have never found the need for FL or many, many other wonder-lubes being touted in the gun press.

Truth be known, guns are devices of limited service life. Lubes help stave off wear. But wear still occurs.

The difference between the BEST of the most modern lubes and many common and easy to apply standbys is not so much I would ever risk a single malfunction due to the use of any superlube.

For many many years I used pretty much nothing but WD40 and found ZERO problems under the worst of conditions. Was it the best LUBE? No. Was it the best corrosion protectant? No. But did it work and did I EVER find a gun function problem with it? Not one.

I still use the stuff off and on, but more or less use Hoppes #9 for bores and G96 for guts after scrubbing with whatever cheap carbon-removing solvent that comes to hand, most often a mixture of motor oil and kerosene and mineral spirits in a whiskey bottle I keep on the gun cleaning bench. Sometimes I go for a while using synthetic motor oil for lube, sometimes aerosol White Lithium grease {in alum framed pistols and AR's} but mostly, G96. Cold, wet, severe cold, rain, dust, heat, whatever, no problem, and no buildup of gunk to cause problems internal to the guns. Ever.

Again, thanks for posting. I have heard of the problems with FL you identify but your info here is greatly appreciated.

bearone2 09-30-2013 11:00 AM

some good info, thanks

LadyLiberty 09-30-2013 11:24 AM

Thank you so much for sharing this. I took the advice of some on this forum and ordered a bottle. Haven't used it yet as we haven't been to the range this time home. We'll be reconsidering how we use this after reading your advice.

Thanks again!

detectivegreenly 09-30-2013 11:39 AM

are you using the paste or the liquid

TYPEII 09-30-2013 11:57 AM

Great info. Thanks

Prentice 09-30-2013 12:06 PM

Because Seal1 is effectively identical to Froglube, I'll add my two cents.

When applying Seal1 to my gun, I first disassemble my gun completely. I remove the hammer, sear, springs, etc. I take a sheet of aluminum foil and form it into a bowl of sorts. While the oven is heating, I add Seal1 and place the individual parts into my makeshift bowl. Because I treat and wipe each part individually , I don't encounter the excess you're referring to. When using the oven method with individual parts, I prefer the liquid Seal1 over the paste form. Once I get everything back together, my gun performs flawlessly.

I have treated my P224, my Taurus TPC, and my wife's P239 this way and the results are excellent. Three days ago I disassembled my P224 for the first time in about 1300 rounds. The internals are effectively perfect. Even the points where two pieces of metal make contact directly, the black finish is still intact. Its been seven months since I first treated my P224 and that series of three treatments is still going strong. I wipe it down every three range trips (about 400-500 rounds) or so just to knock some of the black residue off (which I could easily wipe away with just my finger).

I'm not aware of any major differences between FL and S1, so I am making a few assumptions here. You may be using a different treatment/application method, but doing the disassemble/bake/wipe method might be something for you to consider.

detectivegreenly 09-30-2013 12:08 PM

liquid froglube hasn't gotten gummy on me at all

Mystro 09-30-2013 12:19 PM

I have the paste, liquid and wipes. The problem is Foroglube has to be wiped completely off all the surfaces that were treated. If not and you can actually see any minute wetness, its considered excessive. The problem occurs when it migrates into hard to clean areas like the decocker of a P226/P229. Mine was slow and moved as if in syrup. Most are never going to strip a gun all the way down to wipe off every little part. Field stripping is all that should be nessisary. I will take my grips off after field dressing a gun for a application but that's as far as I go. Other similar products can remain on in either wet or dry form without any change to the viscosity.

Here is a independent test of EWL. He also reports it can be used wet or dry.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/slip_2000.htm

I am not going to B.S anybody. If a product I am using is good, I will highly endorse and recommend it. If a product sucks then you will hear about it.
I evaluate outdoor gear and sporting goods as a side gig for many big companies. They send me gear to test and give a evaluation. I am not a "yes" guy just to get free stuff. If a product fails, and there have been a few, I have to tell the company and give a report of my findings. I had to do that to a company I was testing their latest outdoor watches. A massive modual failure occurred. Turns out I was the only post development tester that caught it late after already being marketed. All because they changed to a Chinese module instead of the Japanese they had currently been using. Froglube is a great external product but has a shortcoming when using it internally. I like Froglube and its quick clean up after a trip to the range is great. I want to go on record that I did not have any functional failures. That may speak volumes how good Sigs are. I think if repeated use of Froglube and over time builds up internally, most guns performance will be hampered. I suspect overly tight tolerances guns like custom 1911's might see trouble after a few applications.

detectivegreenly 09-30-2013 12:24 PM

I run my P226 suppressed, and even with that I haven't had problems

Edsel 09-30-2013 12:33 PM

Ahh...

Modern - Day Snake Oil! :lol:

Mystro 09-30-2013 12:41 PM

I almost was going to take a quick video of how slow my decocker moved but had too many guns to clean. Both of my P229's had sluggish decockers. I took out one of them that has been sitting in the safe for six weeks and the decocker felt like it had Vaseline in it.

LadyLiberty 09-30-2013 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by detectivegreenly (Post 170983)
are you using the paste or the liquid

I think you're asking the OP but on the outside chance that you're not, because it was right after my post, I bought the liquid and haven't opened it yet.:D

str8shooter 09-30-2013 01:17 PM

I haven't used froglube, but I always run clp in all my guns. On my Sigs I use a thin coat of slide glide (which I'm fairly certain is just mobile 1 grease LOL) on the rails and barrel and guide rod, clp on the internals. I degrease and and add new grease after every range trip and so far no gunky buildup.

Mystro 09-30-2013 01:30 PM

Quote:

Decocker sticks on my 229 after using FL, too. What a coincidence? I've defrogged mine and am using RandCLP now. i'll see tomorrow if it helps, but i've decided i'm too stupid to use FL.
Its not you..... I used a heat gun on several repetitive treatments of Froglube. You dont need to add heat after your first treatment. I know the guys of Froglube. They were at a gun expo I was acting as a part time RO between different manufactures. One of them said they never use heat. I hung out at their tent and talked for a long time. This was right in the middle of my experiments regarding the sticky Froglube. I pulled out my P938 that I happen to be carrying and showed them my barrel and questioned why it feels tacky, they kinda didnt know and thought there was too much product left on.


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