German p228 pin on slide not fully pushed in? - SIG Talk
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German p228 pin on slide not fully pushed in?

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Old 03-25-2017, 03:32 PM   #1
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German p228 pin on slide not fully pushed in?

Hey guys I picked up a German Sig 228 and just noticed that the PIN on the rear mid part of the slide is sticking out about 1/8 of an inch maybe closer to 1/16 I was wondering if there is any issue with firing the gun like this or should I replace the PIN? It appears to be slightly mushroomed on the side that is sticking out and there is definitely some room on the opposite side where it could engage deeper dot dot dot any thoughts?

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Old 03-25-2017, 04:11 PM   #2
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Got pics?
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Old 03-25-2017, 04:13 PM   #3
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First off, welcome to Sig Talk from the southwest corner of Indiana.
You should try to drive it flush on both sides if possible, as it holds the breech block into the slide, use a roll pin punch if available. There are actually 2 (roll/torsion) pins, a smaller one inside the larger one, their seams are supposed to be 180 degrees apart.
If you cannot get the one you have driven in because it is peened too much, you may need a new one.
There are videos to perform various tasks, that can be found here in the gunsmithing section... if you don't feel comfortable trying it yourself, check the following:

https://www.sigsauer.com/custom-shop/

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Old 03-25-2017, 04:26 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willard View Post
You should try to drive it flush on both sides if possible, as it holds the breech block into the slide, use a roll pin punch if available. There are actually 2 (roll/torsion) pins, a smaller one inside the larger one, their seams are supposed to be 180 degrees apart.
If you cannot get the one you have driven in because it is peened too much, you may need a new one.
There are videos to perform various tasks, that can be found here in the gunsmithing section... if you don't feel comfortable trying it yourself, check the following:

https://www.sigsauer.com/custom-shop/

Check out their Full Service Package
Exactly this. Piece of cake, just tap it in. It will take some effort though.
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Old 03-25-2017, 04:27 PM   #5
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Thanks for the info, what is this part called? I'll try it myself just don't want to damage the finish. I'm guessing it'll be doable with the right tool

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Old 03-25-2017, 10:49 PM   #6
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I tried tapping at it with a punch but it continued to peen out, I was hitting it pretty solid probably going to tap it out the other side get a new one and try again definitely need to do some research how to do it right. Was hoping to take it on a shooting Expedition tomorrow but I would rather wait and make sure it is properly installed is there anything I should do while I have the pin out? I have noticed on dry fire that the trigger doesn't always reset according to the previous owner it was gone through by a gunsmith and all of the Springs were replaced not sure if this is symptomatic of something or just part of dry firing

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Old 03-25-2017, 11:06 PM   #7
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Those breach block retaining pins (inner & outer) are included in the spare parts kit. The kit includes the roll pins, some small springs, grips screws and a recoil spring for a reasonable price which is a good deal considering what those parts cost separately.
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Old 03-26-2017, 02:43 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by bugsy714 View Post
I tried tapping at it with a punch but it continued to peen out, I was hitting it pretty solid probably going to tap it out the other side get a new one and try again definitely need to do some research how to do it right. Was hoping to take it on a shooting Expedition tomorrow but I would rather wait and make sure it is properly installed is there anything I should do while I have the pin out? I have noticed on dry fire that the trigger doesn't always reset according to the previous owner it was gone through by a gunsmith and all of the Springs were replaced not sure if this is symptomatic of something or just part of dry firing

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Those pins, beside holding the breech block into the slide, also hold the firing pin and its return spring in the breech block, and the safety lock, plus its spring. Don't arbitrarily drive out the pins, or you'll have a smaller version of a "Jack-in-the-Box", with small parts to chase down.
On P228s those particular pins are known as "Inner pin H.D." and "Outer pin H.D." on later milled slides they are known as "firing pin positioning pins", and they "still" hold the firing pin, and safety lock, plus their springs in the slide.
The pins separately may be hard to find, since it has been several years since the folded carbon steel slides have been manufactured. The suggestion about getting a "Parts Kit" is a wise one, even though as you stated the springs were supposed to have been replaced recently. The older a design gets, the harder it is to get even "simple" repair parts.
For instance your trigger "reset" complaint, may be caused by the "Trigger Bar Spring" too weak, or the hammer pin being too far left in the frame, or maybe a simple lack of proper lubrication.
Pictures posted, of both the right, and left sides of the grip frame with the grips removed could help us with the possible diagnosis.
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Old 03-26-2017, 08:37 AM   #9
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I will get pictures of that later tonight thanks for the heads up these are definitely fine mechanisms

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Old 03-26-2017, 09:28 AM   #10
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Are we certain this is a folded steel slide? I, too, would like to see pictures, if for nothing else, to confirm which slide you actually have. I know you said it's a German, but it could be a US slide?

In regards to the mushrooming of the pin, there are special punches to push in roll pins. They have a convex projection on the end, a half moon, if you will, that fits into the ID of the roll pin and prevents this mushrooming. I'd suggest you pick up one of these, especially if you are going to buy replacement parts and drive the new pin(s) in yourself.

Regardless which slide you have, removing the pin and replacing it is not quite as simple as it may sound. You want to make certain the firing pin is in the proper position prior to driving the pin through the firing pin hole or you risk damaging the firing pin. I agree with others in suggesting you send this in to SIG or find a factory certified armorer to do this work for you.
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Old 04-20-2017, 08:21 AM   #11
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As requested here are some pictures of what's going on under the hood, I have played with the gun some more and what I have noticed is that the trigger reset issue seems to stem from the hammer tilting too far forward IE towards the barrel I am assuming that in normal firing the slide wood automatically push the hammer back and alleviate the issue so it might just be a dry fire issue

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Old 04-20-2017, 09:43 AM   #12
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I think you should consider the possibility the the breach block pin is cracked or broken, not unheard of in this design. With that in mind, I would replace it before firing.

As to the reset problem, I think the cause could be a failed or improperly positioned hammer reset spring. Can you post a pic of the rear of the hammer (decocked) or use this pic as reference to inspect your reset spring:

PseriesReturn Spring.001.jpg
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:01 AM   #13
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bugsy714, welcome back! First off, the hammer will not rest on the firing pin after striking it. There is a hammer reset spring located in the hammer stop for one that "resets" the hammer. Insure the pistol is unloaded!!! Once you are sure, pull the trigger, and hold it to the rear... with a finger from your other hand push the hammer forward, and watch it rebound to the rear when you remove the finger. If it doesn't, then the gunsmith didn't reassemble the firearm properly, when replacing springs.

In the line drawing, the reset spring (Red Arrow) has a leg which will bear against a pin in the hammer (Green Arrow). You should be able to see this leg of the spring through the slot at the rear of the hammer. If the above test doesn't have the hammer rebound, there's a chance the springs leg isn't located correctly.

To position it properly, you'll need to make a "slave pin". First you need to drive out the full length pin, that secures the hammer stop to the frame, and also goes through the hammer reset spring, anchoring it into place. once you have driven the pin out, you should have the "stop", "pin", and "spring".

This is where you need your "slave pin", it will hold the spring in place in the stop, while you position it back in place. I doesn't need to be "perfect" or strong... a toothpick would probably work, just as long as it doesn't protrude beyond the stop when inserted. Insure the leg of the spring will reach over the pin in the hammer, as you place the stop in the frame. Once in position, insert the "pin" into the frame, and drive out the "slave pin" from the other side.
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File Type: jpg Hammer Reset Spring.jpg (892.2 KB, 17 views)
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:14 AM   #14
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I agree with ThnkFrst on you replacing your Slide's inner and outer pins. You will more than likely need to get a "Sig P228 Parts Kit", to insure getting the pins. It seems that the "pins" are rarer than "Hens Teeth" alone. As I mentioned previously, be careful replacing these, as the components can turn into a miniature "jack-in-the-box"!
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Old 04-20-2017, 01:30 PM   #15
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I will get a picture of the hammer tonight thanks for all of the replies and yes I have been lamenting buying that parts replacement kit hoping that I could use one of the modern spiral pins instead

While I have the slide roll pins removed should I replace any parts in the block? I don't want to open this up again anytime soon LOL

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