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My Armory Craft Flat trigger experience.

24K views 40 replies 11 participants last post by  sideburn 
#1 ·
I received my 2 triggers Saturday late. About 7 PM.
The triggers were ordered for my M11A1 and a P229 SAS.

The instructions called for the pre-travel delrin to be filed down to 0.03"
to 0.02" to get a DA reset. The original dimentions of the delrin was 0.065".

I removed the right grip plate, released the pressure off the sear spring
and removed the safety lever since the M11A1 has an SRT trigger system and this way
it would be esier to remove the trigger bar.
I proceded to remove the trigger bar spring, trigger bar, original trigger,
trigger pivot pin, slide catch lever, take down lever, and locking block.

Installed new trigger and proceeded to reassemble frame and then I realized that
the lenght of the pre-travel delrin would not let me seat the locking block all the way.
The gun was decocked and the trigger pivot pin had the notches facing down as always.

Removed everything again and filed down delrin to 0.035". I took a gamble.
Reinstalled everything again and the locking block snapped in with no problem like
I have done dozens of times on all my Sigs.

At this point, the trigger did not reset in DA.
I turned the frame upside down, pulled the trigger all the way back and carefully filed down the delrin with a fine flat and narrow file making sure I did not scratch the frame.

After several tries, SUCCESS !!!, the trigger reset with no pre-travel.
Final length of delrin 0.018".

Next was adjusting the over travel set screw. That part was fast and easy.
Turned set screw with provided allen wrench until the trigger did not release
the hammer on DA. Backed out set screw until hammer released.

Assembled slide and frame together and function tested the gun.

Last thing was to make sure the pretravel screw did not move on me.
I advanced the screw two 1/2 turns towards the back of the trigger.
Dabbed some clear nail polish on the threads, and backed out the screw towards the front 2 1/2 turns.

Total time 1 1/2 hours considering it was my first, very minimal instructions
and careful not to screw up.

Sunday morning I tackled my P229 SAS in 25 minutes !!!!!!
Final delrin lenght 0.015".

CONCLUSION: I am very satisfied with the end results. No pre-travel and my SRT action has been improved by the over-travel adjustment. I am a self taught amateur armorer learning by doing.
I never outgrew my Erector set.

As usual all these parts have the disclaimer that they should be installed by a qualified armorer or gunsmith.
 

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#2 ·
Congratulations on two successful assemblies! Now, where the rubber meets the road... how did they perform? Live fire is the ultimate test!
 
#4 ·
Similar experience with my new M11A-1 with a wut da when I had no DA at .030.
I used a razor to shave off the Delrin (2 layers of duct tape for protection) and as you stated pretty near all of it to get to DA

Shot this morning.
When all you do is dry fire you do not really know if this is good or not as my older M11A-1 trigger is so sweet and the newer not so sweet in DA particularly.

Shooting however this was very nice not only because of travel and reset but the wider flat trigger is very comfortable something you are not sure of until you are running drills and dropping mags
 
#5 ·
The reason for my original post was that I started reading about some members having problems with the installation.
I figured that a detail step by step description will help some.
I think a lot of people thought that it was a plain drop in.
When they saw some fitting required some freaked out.
With a little bit of patience anybody can install it.
 
#6 ·
I would have liked your detailed analysis before I started installation but alas I have the patience of lightning in a cloud.

I start working on it as soon as i see the envelope in the mailbox

Besides I have taken apart Sigs a few times what could go wrong? :lol:
Doesn't installing 3 triggers previously make me a master Sig armorer?:rolleyes:

My big concern was the sparse instructions and after having removed 75% of the Delrin I still did not have the DA and wondered if I was missing something.

In fairness to Armroycraft I believe they assume you have enough experience to do this and assume a novice will take it to someone qualified.

That would, of course, be common sense but, that is where they went wrong. :fpc:

We are men and men don't need experience or common sense to master any task.
We do some of our best work in total ignorance:drool:
 
#7 · (Edited)
I would have liked your detailed analysis before I started installation but alas I have the patience of lightning in a cloud.

I start working on it as soon as i see the envelope in the mailbox
We are alike. We put together the Jungle Jim swing set first, and then when we finish, we start to read the instructions to figure out why we have 3 washers, 1 cross member, 6 bolts and 5 extra nuts.
 
#10 ·
The Art and Science of Writing Instructions

I have two Armory Craft triggers sitting on my workbench awaiting installation this evening.

Reading this thread, I recognize the challenge Armory Craft has in, not only creating and producing something new and very cool, but letting it out of their control into the hands of....gulp...."The Public".....

My wife and I started a small company making a part for the Ford F-150 pickup. When we wrote the installation instructions, we had to try to think of everything someone "MIGHT" do that could hurt themselves when installing our part.

We listed what tools were needed, what the work space should be (level), please turn off the engine, set the parking brake....We provide the torque specs for the bolt and nuts...and people STILL overtighten and pull the studs right out of the product.

When any of us make a mistake like this, we feel bad. One thing we often do for customers is replace the broken part at no charge, and, inevitably someone writes a nice review and we sell a couple more as a result. We also ask for the broken part back, to see what we can learn.

I can imagine Armory Craft having an issue with someone filing the pre-travel Delrin rod down too far....I know I'm going to be careful when I do it!

We also put LOTS of pictures in our instructions (eleven, in fact) to help people see and understand something they are going to do for the first time. I'd encourage Armory Craft to do the same. I have to say, the photography on their website is beautiful.

Finally, ANY set of instructions for installing a gun part MUST include: Make sure the gun is unloaded. Remove all ammunition from the room where you are working, etc....

Alright....enough pontificating....back to work....

Northlight
 
#11 ·
I can imagine Armory Craft having an issue with someone filing the pre-travel Delrin rod down too far....I know I'm going to be careful when I do it!
Northlight
I am not sure as in not 100% positive but I believe the only thing that happens if you go toooooo far is the pre-travel is longer and one of the reasons for installing "this" trigger is to minimize the DA pre-travel.
So while you may go too far and defeat the intention of reducing that I do not believe you do more than that meaning it will still work fine.

Can someone correct me if I am wrong???
 
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#13 ·
You are right....

...it will still work fine.....but...you just might not be happy....particularly if it was your fault that you went too far....and one of the product features is reduced or eliminated.

We ask our customers to spend nearly $100 for our product...and the expectation is it will do exactly as advertised.

I regularly get e-mails or calls from customers with installation issues...and try my best to help them correct things.

No surprise...it's usually someone who didn't read or understand the instructions.

I've got one of my guns apart now, getting ready to install the Armory Craft trigger....

Northlight
 
#15 ·
Armory trigger quick start.
1) Cut off 80% of Delrin stub before installation.
2) Install the trigger, leaving off the slide. The locking block won'go back in yet.
3) Holding frame upside down, hold trigger back, triple tape in front of Delrin and file it shorter a bit and see if locking block fits in. Repeat until it does. Step 1 done.
4) File lightly and check the double action reset. You will do this repeatedly until it does. If you are patient you can get virtually ZERO take up. Step 2 done.
5) install SA overtravel set screw . Test until zero over travel. Back it off two 1/2 turns. Add touch of blue loctite to threads screw in 1/2 turn and test. Done.

Anyone please comment if you think disagree!
 
#16 ·
I predicted someone would do this....

...of course, it just happened to be me.:eek:

In the process of installing the first of two Armory Craft triggers (P227 Tactical), I filed the pre-travel pin down just a hair too much...resulting in more movement in the trigger than there could have been (had I been a bit more careful, gone slower, etc., yada yada)

Like others, I filed a little, then put the trigger in and checked to see if it would DA reset. Then took the trigger our and filed a little more...and...oops...too far. Dang.

Took my time on the next trigger (P229 Stainless Elite) and used a brand new super sharp X-Acto blade to shave nearly transparent slivers off the pre-travel pin until the DA reset reliably.

Perfection. Looks and feels good.

Here's the best part: I sent a note to Armory Craft letting them know what I did and asking if the pre-travel pin is pressed in or glued in (starting to think about how I would fix my mistake). Got an almost immediate reply:

"The pin is pressed in. It can be drilled out. What's your address, I'll send you a replacement right away."

Thanks, Armory Craft for creating the new flat trigger for our favorite guns...and for taking good care of your customers!

Northlight
 

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#17 ·
...of course, it just happened to be me.:eek:

In the process of installing the first of two Armory Craft triggers (P227 Tactical), I filed the pre-travel pin down just a hair too much...resulting in more movement in the trigger than there could have been (had I been a bit more careful, gone slower, etc., yada yada)

Like others, I filed a little, then put the trigger in and checked to see if it would DA reset. Then took the trigger our and filed a little more...and...oops...too far. Dang.

Took my time on the next trigger (P229 Stainless Elite) and used a brand new super sharp X-Acto blade to shave nearly transparent slivers off the pre-travel pin until the DA reset reliably.

Perfection. Looks and feels good.

Here's the best part: I sent a note to Armory Craft letting them know what I did and asking if the pre-travel pin is pressed in or glued in (starting to think about how I would fix my mistake). Got an almost immediate reply:

"The pin is pressed in. It can be drilled out. What's your address, I'll send you a replacement right away."

Thanks, Armory Craft for creating the new flat trigger for our favorite guns...and for taking good care of your customers!

Northlight
So is the delrin pin plastic? I wonder if it can be swapped out for a metal one or if it even matters.
 
#18 ·
Looking at this got the wheels turning in my head. Couldn't small hole theoretically be drilled and add a pin to the front of a standard trigger? One could get a pin, and make a small undersized hole and hammer in the pin into place. Then file it down to take out the pre travel? I may take a stab at it with an old trigger I have laying around.
 

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#19 ·
Seems like there is...

...enough area on the trigger to do what you are suggesting...with one additional idea:

Instead of having to file or shave the pre-travel pin, let's drill and tap for an adjustable pin like the one that controls SA over-travel.

Essentially reversing the orientation of the allen-wrench-adjusted SA over-travel pin, putting the delrin part towards the front with the allen head to the rear.

Challenge: Access to the allen head on the back side of the trigger. Not unlike the current shave-the-pin approach, you still have to take the trigger out to adjust the pin length...but if you go too far (like I did) you can adjust the DA pre-travel instead of replacing the pin.

Northlight
 
#20 ·
...enough area on the trigger to do what you are suggesting...with one additional idea:

Instead of having to file or shave the pre-travel pin, let's drill and tap for an adjustable pin like the one that controls SA over-travel.

Essentially reversing the orientation of the allen-wrench-adjusted SA over-travel pin, putting the delrin part towards the front with the allen head to the rear.

Challenge: Access to the allen head on the back side of the trigger. Not unlike the current shave-the-pin approach, you still have to take the trigger out to adjust the pin length...but if you go too far (like I did) you can adjust the DA pre-travel instead of replacing the pin.

Northlight
I thought about that too, but I don't like the idea of having to Loctite, and worrying about threads backing out. a really tight pin with maybe even some Loctite won't move. I even thought about the same thing for the over travel. A pin that can be pushed in to file down. This to me removes any possibility of the screw moving at any point.
 
#21 ·
Interesting...

...so if we recognize that there are differences from gun to gun in the required length of the pre-travel or over-travel pins....maybe each trigger ships with 3 or 4 different length pins.

Lengths of the pin are determined by a quick survey of the range of P-series guns and the various lengths people are ending up with to deliver reliable DA reset.

I'm with you, I don't like stuff coming loose or adjusting itself into non-operation...but...(as I've experienced just recently)...I also don't really like the slightly less exacting nature of filing or shaving things to fit.

Guess I'm more of an "Amateur Armorer"....semi-capable of taking things apart and putting them back together...than an "Amateur Gunsmith"...semi-capable of carefully fitting parts together like real gunsmiths can.

No matter what....this is a whole lot of fun...

Northlight
 
#22 ·
...so if we recognize that there are differences from gun to gun in the required length of the pre-travel or over-travel pins....maybe each trigger ships with 3 or 4 different length pins.

Lengths of the pin are determined by a quick survey of the range of P-series guns and the various lengths people are ending up with to deliver reliable DA reset.

I'm with you, I don't like stuff coming loose or adjusting itself into non-operation...but...(as I've experienced just recently)...I also don't really like the slightly less exacting nature of filing or shaving things to fit.

Guess I'm more of an "Amateur Armorer"....semi-capable of taking things apart and putting them back together...than an "Amateur Gunsmith"...semi-capable of carefully fitting parts together like real gunsmiths can.

No matter what....this is a whole lot of fun...

Northlight
Agree 100% with you. I haven't installed my armory craft trigger yet but hopefully get a chance to this weekend. I've sort of been putting it off because of fear I would screw it up too lol. I'm not a gunsmith but think that either a pin to file down or a screw as you mentioned is a brilliant idea. Home made adjustable factory trigger.
 
#23 ·
Have you had...

...your gun apart before and taken out the trigger?

It's pretty simple...perhaps you know this already.

It took more fiddling to get the trigger bar out of my 229 than the 227...I think there's just a little more room.

I also took the opportunity to look things over and clean and re-grease as necessary.

Northlight
 
#24 ·
...your gun apart before and taken out the trigger?

It's pretty simple...perhaps you know this already.

It took more fiddling to get the trigger bar out of my 229 than the 227...I think there's just a little more room.

I also took the opportunity to look things over and clean and re-grease as necessary.

Northlight
Yes I've taken the whole frame apart before. It isn't that hard, but I have had trouble getting that dad gummed trigger bar in too.

I'm thinking now, that I may modify my dreaded short reach triggers. I hate how the short reach trigger pinches my finger, but if I can remove the over travel I think it would be awesome.
 
#26 ·
This trigger is so comfortable to my finger. It totally removed the pinch of both the regular and short thin) trigger. I even tried the trigger mod posted by another forum member. This Armory design allows use of the full length of the trigger and feels like .5 lighter trigger pull.

And No I am not a Shill. Just a very happy customer. Nice job boys!
 
#29 ·
I finally got around to installing the trigger. It feels great and does all as advertised. A couple of concerns I have though. How durable is that little green plastic at the back of the overtravel screw.? Also, compared to steel, how durable is alluminum compared to steel in this application? I mean it has a pin in it and it is being pushed and pulled and it seems like it would wear. I noticed some flex in the trigger around the lightening cut, at least to my eyes it looks like flex. I hope the trigger works great, and just hope I'm being paranoid. I do like the way it looks and feels, they are for sure onto something with this trigger.
I also noticed that my trigger seems to sit differently in my frame compared to others. Hardly none of the delrin pin deal is sticking out at the bottom like others I've seen.
 

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#30 ·
easiest way is to remove everything down to the trigger

put new trigger in, attach trigger bar spring.

insert trigger pin only. and file down a little per time repeating steps until you can get a DA pull.

as soon as you get a DA pull. take the spring and pin out and reassemble as you would normally. no pretravel and your DA/SA works and it goes back together like butter
 
#31 ·
I just finished doing a buddy's 226rx da/sa. I put in a SRT kit first.
I filed down about 85% of the delrin pin before I installed it. I got F'd up because I didn't have the trigger pin grooves facing down....doh.

I went back at it the next AM & couldn't get the DA to reset. I saw a post on 1911addicts.com & sent the (ArmoryCraft) owner a pm. My concern was taking off too much of the pin. He responded quickly & stated the models vary so much, he'd had customers tell him they almost filed the pin flat/flush.
I went at it (filed) the pin down to about .003-005" & badda-bing it works like a charm.
My buddy's P226rx DA/SA has literally next to NO take-up in DA, and with the SRT & over travel set screw dialed in she's GTG.

Good product just not the ABSOLUTE clearest instructions. They should take the time to do a CONCISE YouTube vid. Just my $.02. 4 1/2 stars on the product, 2 1/2 stars on instructions. YMMV

George
 
#39 ·
Good customer service from Armory Craft...

....and some...uh...:eek:...good advice from the makers of the Flat Trigger.

You'll recall, I filed one of my pre-travel pins down too far on the first install and asked Armory Craft if they would send a replacement.

Got TWO replacement pins in the mail today....

OK, kids, just remember:

"The little tip needs to go in first..."

Northlight
 

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#41 ·
....and some...uh...:eek:...good advice from the makers of the Flat Trigger.



You'll recall, I filed one of my pre-travel pins down too far on the first install and asked Armory Craft if they would send a replacement.



Got TWO replacement pins in the mail today....



OK, kids, just remember:



"The little tip needs to go in first..."



Northlight


LMAO! Quit filing your nub down too far Northlight...
 
#40 ·
If you are seeing lateral play in your trigger, whether stock or Armory Craft, it will most likely be due to wear of the trigger pivot pin, rather than the trigger itself, at least that's what I've seen measuring the diameter of the wear spots on the pin (out of round). This is on some higher round count guns where lubing the trigger pivot was neglected. Most guns don't get detail stripped that often . . . but you can still lube the pin by dribbling a bit of oil down the sides of the trigger so it reaches the pin, then wipe off excess.

As to the earlier question about the durability of the plastic tipped set screw, as I recall it's nylon, should last very well, though Delrin is better still, it's not to fret about.

My favorite thread locker for apps where you may want to later adjust or to fix grip screws etc, it Vibra-Tite. You apply it to the threads and let it dry (unlike most Loctite). Then it's good for several install remove cycles, with no issues removing.

I received my A. Craft trigger the other day. Haven't installed it yet. Very impressed with the design and machining. Good stuff!
 
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