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Difference between DAK and DAO

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Old 12-15-2013, 05:42 AM   #1
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Difference between DAK and DAO

What is the difference between Double Action Kellerman (DAK) and Double Action Only (DAO)? I'm looking for a P224 in .40 and my LGS has a DAK in stock and I know the DA/SA or hitting the stores now. I like my DA/SA P226 and P232, and my DAO P290RS, but don't know the difference between it and a DAK. Any help and pro's and cons are appreciated.
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:48 AM   #2
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Dak was/is a system set up by Kettering. It's similar to a Dao, but most if not all dak trigger systems have a short reset point, in addition to a long reset point. Dak systems tend to have slight part and maintenance differences.

A better description as to the dak reset is not fully releasing the trigger prior to a follow up shot. It will still be able to full release and fire again, you just don't have to.

Another description is an in between system from revolvers to semi autos. Ymmv, I am a SAO guy.

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Old 12-15-2013, 05:51 AM   #3
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Hammer lugs are different
no hammer reset springs on the dak
no need for decock lever/system obviously,
Can't remember the rest if any off hand

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Old 12-15-2013, 06:00 AM   #4
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Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but the DAK system has a consist 6.5 lb trigger pull if used as designed. If you use the short reset the trigger pull goes to 8.5 lbs. The DAO has the a higher first trigger pull then they are all the same. First trigger pull due to cocking the hammer. Also the DAK has no decocker you carry with the gun cocked with one in the chamber.


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Old 12-15-2013, 06:07 AM   #5
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"Kellerman" but what he said!
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Old 12-15-2013, 06:18 AM   #6
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The parts to convert a DAO to DA/SA are
Hammer,strut pin, Decocking lever, spring, and bearing.

To convert the DAK to DA/SA also must replace
Mainspring, safety lever, sear & spring, Trigger bar.

The DAK is as already stated, a short reset, for shooting under stress and not fully releasing the trigger to full reset. It increases the short reset poundage by pushing the mainspring.

I have been reading because I have been checking converting. The parts explanation is on Top gun's facts page.
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Old 12-15-2013, 07:01 AM   #7
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I really want to try a DAK.

I have read so many great reviews of the trigger.

I'm not a big fan of the Classic DA pull. They work, but that's about the best I can say about them. The SP2022 DA is much better and very good. The P250 is really superb, best DA I've ever had experience with. The more I use the P250 the more fond of it I get.

But those who use it frequently say the best of the lot is the DAK.

Best test for me is shooting the pistol weak handed. Shoot for group weak handed with the various guns and see how you do. Anything can be shot well with a hard two-handed hold, including the HK VP70Z! I had one of them for a while and found it dead nuts accurate 2-handed, but the 49 pound trigger was a group-killer when shot weak handed.
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Old 12-15-2013, 07:49 AM   #8
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My understanding is this.

DOA the trigger pull is about 8.5-12 lbs. Police found this too heavy for their use but didn't want a light trigger pull. Sig developed the DAK and H&K has what they call the LEM (law enforcement module). Both do the same thing. They "pre-cock" the trigger part way so the constant pull is about 6.5 lbs on every shot.
Like the others have said, the parts are different and there is no decocker since it's not needed
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Old 12-15-2013, 07:56 AM   #9
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i'm not sure who to give credit to:
Sig DAK Explained

Dear Friends I read some threads on the Sig Double Action Kellerman and saw misconceptions on what the DAK trigger system was developed for. I recently attended a CCP course up at the Sig Academy and it was explained to me as our department is thinking about switching from a Sig P229 DA/SA to a DAK system. This is part of a memo I sent to my people as some of them had this same misconception of what the intermediate short reset option of the system was for. Here is what I learned about Sig's DAK from the course instructor:

• The DAK (Double Action Kellerman) system has an intermediate reset which provides the ability of the user of being able to fire the pistol in the event the user short strokes the trigger during a critical incident. The trigger pull for the system is 6.5 lbs. in full DAO (Double Action Only) and increases to 8 lbs. if the trigger is pulled from the intermediate short reset position.
• Sig recommends and trains so that the system is to be used as DAO (Double Action Only). You will see that they only list the 6.5 lbs. trigger pull in DA on their DAK models specifications sheets. They recommend that users should be trained to fire the pistol by utilizing the full double action trigger stroke so that the trigger is a consistent 6.5 lbs.
• They have heard of some departments who do not understand what the system is suppose to be for and have been training their officers to use the short stroke after the initial full trigger pull. This is incorrect
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Old 12-15-2013, 08:11 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearone2 View Post
i'm not sure who to give credit to:
Sig DAK Explained

Dear Friends I read some threads on the Sig Double Action Kellerman and saw misconceptions on what the DAK trigger system was developed for. I recently attended a CCP course up at the Sig Academy and it was explained to me as our department is thinking about switching from a Sig P229 DA/SA to a DAK system. This is part of a memo I sent to my people as some of them had this same misconception of what the intermediate short reset option of the system was for. Here is what I learned about Sig's DAK from the course instructor:

The DAK (Double Action Kellerman) system has an intermediate reset which provides the ability of the user of being able to fire the pistol in the event the user short strokes the trigger during a critical incident. The trigger pull for the system is 6.5 lbs. in full DAO (Double Action Only) and increases to 8 lbs. if the trigger is pulled from the intermediate short reset position.
Sig recommends and trains so that the system is to be used as DAO (Double Action Only). You will see that they only list the 6.5 lbs. trigger pull in DA on their DAK models specifications sheets. They recommend that users should be trained to fire the pistol by utilizing the full double action trigger stroke so that the trigger is a consistent 6.5 lbs.
They have heard of some departments who do not understand what the system is suppose to be for and have been training their officers to use the short stroke after the initial full trigger pull. This is incorrect
Thanks bear!
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:16 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Valdemar View Post
I really want to try a DAK.

I have read so many great reviews of the trigger.

I'm not a big fan of the Classic DA pull. They work, but that's about the best I can say about them. The SP2022 DA is much better and very good. The P250 is really superb, best DA I've ever had experience with. The more I use the P250 the more fond of it I get.

But those who use it frequently say the best of the lot is the DAK.
I really like the DAK trigger on my 229. The pull is a bit long but breaks light, right at around 6.5 lbs. As others have mentioned, the intermediate reset breaks at 8.5 if you want to use it, or if you short-stroke. But I ignore the intermediate reset and just enjoy that glorious, smooth, 6.5 break on the full pull.

BTW, someone mentioned that the DAK is "cocked." Not true. As with DAO, the DAK hammer cannot be cocked.

The DAK is essentially a subtype of DAO that has a light full pull and then an optional short pull that is slightly heavier. Again, I ignore the intermediate reset/short pull and exclusively use the long, light one.
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Old 12-15-2013, 12:47 PM   #12
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I'll second on the can't cock it.
The natural position is half cock or just slightly off the firing pin. Same position as the decocked DA/SA

I am looking at a couple of 220 compacts. One is SAO and the other is DAO. Next trip in to look I will confirm if it is DAK or just DAO. I have been researching this weekend on them.

Last edited by dwg13013; 12-15-2013 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 12-15-2013, 01:32 PM   #13
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I'll second on the can't cock it.
The natural position is half cock or just slightly off the firing pin. Same position as the decocked DA/SA
It's not a half cock, it's actually a hammer intercept notch, an internal safety designed to keep the hammer from striking the firing pin if the pistol is dropped on the hammer.

As for the DAK description, Bears is about as accurate as it gets.
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Old 12-15-2013, 01:44 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by P229R View Post
It's not a half cock, it's actually a hammer intercept notch, an internal safety designed to keep the hammer from striking the firing pin if the pistol is dropped on the hammer.

As for the DAK description, Bears is about as accurate as it gets.
Bear is always accurate. So, as I read all the replies, it is pretty much the same as a DAO, only it has a short reset in which is a heavier pull if you don't release the trigger all the way on the previous shot.
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Old 12-15-2013, 01:45 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by P229R View Post
It's not a half cock, it's actually a hammer intercept notch, an internal safety designed to keep the hammer from striking the firing pin if the pistol is dropped on the hammer.

As for the DAK description, Bears is about as accurate as it gets.
Good to know.
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