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State of NJ Suing Sig Over Duty Weapons (P229 9MM)

This is a discussion on State of NJ Suing Sig Over Duty Weapons (P229 9MM) within the SIG Sauer Pistols forums, part of the SIG Sauer Forum category; Originally Posted by GoneBallisticInAlabama Funny, but I use WWB almost all the time in 9mm and never have issues. This isn't about the ammo. It's ...


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Old 05-18-2017, 05:30 AM   #31
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Funny, but I use WWB almost all the time in 9mm and never have issues.
This isn't about the ammo. It's about the guns.

For unexplained reasons, NJ seems to have issues with firearms. This is exactly the same issue they had with S&W in 2001

That said, the ammo they now use is Speer Gold Dot 124's. It's a proven ammo.

Lastly, I can't tell you what the differences are but I have shot literally 10's of thousands of rounds of 9mm WWB in competitions over many years with VERY few issues that were related to the ammo. I have a habit of hearing of ammo problems [with 9mm] and buying and trying that ammo.

It is rare that I can replicate the problems. My suspicion is it often relates to either the shooter or the way the firearm has been maintained - not the ammo, not a problem with the manufactured firearm platform.
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:14 AM   #32
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Several years ago a local PD had an issue with Ford over one of their LEOs being killed when his cruiser was struck from behind. As I was told (by a LEO in the dept) the car burst into flames, and the cop burned do death. The agency ended up suing Ford, and, as a result, dropped the Crown Vic to go all Tahoe. Now, according to some of the logic here, this is total **** b/c a lot of other LEAs still use the Ford Crown Vic, so Chevy, being butthurt over the fact that these LEAs no longer buy Impalas for duty use, gave this LEA all their Tahoes for virtually nothing! I have to laugh sometimes over some of the stuff said. As it has been pointed out, Sig has taken a pretty significant hit over the years on quality. A lot of LEAs have gone away from Sigs for other models such as the Glock. A lot of LEAs have also gone from Glocks to Sig, but that doesn't mean either of these companies are butthurt over losing contracts to the Army. Good grief!

In the 80s, when the Army went with Beretta, Sig protested just like Glock has here, but they still got lots of other contracts, and guess what guys...they didn't go out of business b/c they didn't get the Army contract. In fact, they got special forces contracts with the DoD, not to mention other foreign deals as well. Just the same, Glock has DoD contracts in place, not to mention numerous other foreign contracts with militaries and police agencies. Anyone who thinks Glock is dying or obsolete, or that they give their guns away b/c they didn't get the Army contract is daft.

Now, as it relates to this particular article, this kind of thing happens ALL THE TIME. It is nothing new, guys. It is unfortunate for Sig, but at the end of the day they really don't care. It's just the cost of doing business. They, like Glock, know that you're not going to please everyone all the time. Both Sig and Glock are going to be just fine. This really isn't even a drop in the bucket.
Not to detract from your story about bursting into flames, and probably totally unrelated to it, but Ford stopped making the Crown Vic two years ago. Most departments across the country now drive the Ford SUV Interceptor (a lowered Explorer), following extensive testing by the CHP. You still see Crown Vic's in positions or departments that don't put a lot of miles on their cars. It's a shame, I loved the Crown Vic and am not a huge fan of the Explorer.
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:26 AM   #33
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Not to detract from your story about bursting into flames, and probably totally unrelated to it, but Ford stopped making the Crown Vic two years ago. Most departments across the country now drive the Ford SUV Interceptor (a lowered Explorer), following extensive testing by the CHP. You still see Crown Vic's in positions or departments that don't put a lot of miles on their cars. It's a shame, I loved the Crown Vic and am not a huge fan of the Explorer.
Yeah, I've been seeing more and more Explorers and Tauruses in use. Just saw an Alabama State Trooper in an Explorer this weekend, which I have not seen to that point. They'd actually gone with the new Chevy Caprice, but I have not seen that many of them which leads me to believe they're going to start getting the Explorers. I know a lot of LEOs who love the Crwon Vic. It is an intimidating cruiser that is very practical, but seems the SUV is the wave of the future for a cruiser. I know the Dodge Challengers are popular as well, especially for other official uses. The story I related happened several years ago, but this dept uses the Tahoe exclusively for traffic duty. They also use the Chargers for plain clothes operations.
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:43 AM   #34
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Not to detract from your story about bursting into flames, and probably totally unrelated to it, but Ford stopped making the Crown Vic two years ago. Most departments across the country now drive the Ford SUV Interceptor (a lowered Explorer), following extensive testing by the CHP. You still see Crown Vic's in positions or departments that don't put a lot of miles on their cars. It's a shame, I loved the Crown Vic and am not a huge fan of the Explorer.
Here's your crown:




I hereby proclaim you "King Of Thread Drift".

I admit, I have seen a lot of thread drift around here, but jumping from Failures to Extract to loving a Crown Vic was a huge unexpected leap...

Man, I L O V E this place...
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:03 AM   #35
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This isn't about the ammo. It's about the guns.

For unexplained reasons, NJ seems to have issues with firearms. This is exactly the same issue they had with S&W in 2001

That said, the ammo they now use is Speer Gold Dot 124's. It's a proven ammo.

Lastly, I can't tell you what the differences are but I have shot literally 10's of thousands of rounds of 9mm WWB in competitions over many years with VERY few issues that were related to the ammo. I have a habit of hearing of ammo problems [with 9mm] and buying and trying that ammo.

It is rare that I can replicate the problems. My suspicion is it often relates to either the shooter or the way the firearm has been maintained - not the ammo, not a problem with the manufactured firearm platform.
Agree about the ammo.
I was responding to a previous post that claimed WWB was bad ammo.
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Last edited by GoneBallisticInAlabama; 05-18-2017 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:05 AM   #36
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Yeah, I've been seeing more and more Explorers and Tauruses in use. Just saw an Alabama State Trooper in an Explorer this weekend, which I have not seen to that point. They'd actually gone with the new Chevy Caprice, but I have not seen that many of them which leads me to believe they're going to start getting the Explorers. I know a lot of LEOs who love the Crwon Vic. It is an intimidating cruiser that is very practical, but seems the SUV is the wave of the future for a cruiser. I know the Dodge Challengers are popular as well, especially for other official uses. The story I related happened several years ago, but this dept uses the Tahoe exclusively for traffic duty. They also use the Challengers for plain clothes operations.
We have Troopers in our area in a silver Suburban and a black Ram pickup. Both completely unmarked with only interior blue lights.
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:10 AM   #37
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We have Troopers in our area in a silver Suburban and a black Ram pickup. Both completely unmarked with only interior blue lights.
I haven't seen a pick up, but I have seen a silver Suburban, although it was marked on the door. There is a black unmarked Crown Vic in my town, though. I've seen him taking money at the gate for soccer games. Nice guy.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:32 PM   #38
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What is a "g l o c k"? G uuhh lawk? Am I saying that right? Dunno...sounds like funny business to me.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:46 PM   #39
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These quality items happening over and over, is hurting my thoughts in regards to Sig's ability to get some of their handguns right.
With Sig jumping into Optics and into the Mfg. of Ammo. i feel right now they need to get back to the basics of their handguns.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:37 PM   #40
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These quality items happening over and over, is hurting my thoughts in regards to Sig's ability to get some of their handguns right.
With Sig jumping into Optics and into the Mfg. of Ammo. i feel right now they need to get back to the basics of their handguns.
Their QC issues started with the hiring of the Kimber CEO who implemented all these new models to spruce up their line. It is reported they started using inferior internal parts, etc., but suffice it to say there have been some growing pains.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:38 PM   #41
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What is a "g l o c k"? G uuhh lawk? Am I saying that right? Dunno...sounds like funny business to me.
Seriously, what's funny about it? I mean it's not like this is the first time something like this has happened.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:54 PM   #42
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Their QC issues started with the hiring of the Kimber CEO who implemented all these new models to spruce up their line. It is reported they started using inferior internal parts, etc., but suffice it to say there have been some growing pains.
I believe that's true. His introduction of MIM parts to save costs on premium firearms is still being felt to this day.

That's just my opinion so it can't be wrong - your opinion may vary - and it can't be wrong either...
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Old 05-18-2017, 02:00 PM   #43
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Well guess I will hold up on buying a 229 after reading this report.
hope my M11-A1 don't get a bunch of bad reports.
never know what to buy now days.
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Old 05-18-2017, 02:01 PM   #44
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I believe that's true. His introduction of MIM parts to save costs on premium firearms is still being felt to this day.

That's just my opinion so it can't be wrong - your opinion may vary - and it can't be wrong either...
Yeah, I agree...I used to tell my troops I may not always be right, but I'm never wrong.

Personally, I've never had a single problem with a Sig product that was not the result of human error. I bought a P226 that the previous owner had cut the mainspring on, which resulted in light strikes. A full service package from Sig and she ran like a top! However, my only experience with Sigs have been limited to at least three original P226s, a couple old P220s, a couple P229s in .40s, a couple MK25s, a Legion P229, and a P245. All of them ran great, except the one P226 mentioned above. I've never ventured outside those arenas, mainly b/c I've read and heard so many problems others have had with the newer versions. Plus, I just like the older guns.
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Old 05-18-2017, 02:09 PM   #45
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Well guess I will hold up on buying a 229 after reading this report.
hope my M11-A1 don't get a bunch of bad reports.
never know what to buy now days.
Chances are that you won't have any problems with any 229 you buy, but it is what it is. The SoNJ could have come up with this just to get out of their contract with Sig, but that really isn't likely. That costs money, to file suit, and it is a huge headache to boot. However, there is a reason some 65% of LE today use a Glock. Several, actually, to include cost, reliability, weight (this is a pretty big one) and aftermarket support. Some have ventured out to other polymer guns, but plastic is huge simply bc of weight alone. It makes a difference when you're carrying 20lbs of gear on you all day long.
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