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State of NJ Suing Sig Over Duty Weapons (P229 9MM)

This is a discussion on State of NJ Suing Sig Over Duty Weapons (P229 9MM) within the SIG Sauer Pistols forums, part of the SIG Sauer Forum category; NO it can't be! Now the main stream news is going after Sig. Must be FAKE news...


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Old 05-18-2017, 05:23 PM   #61
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NO it can't be!

Now the main stream news is going after Sig. Must be FAKE news
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Old 05-18-2017, 05:27 PM   #62
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Did I make a big mistake?
In a word, No.
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Old 05-18-2017, 05:35 PM   #63
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Heh, heh. Yer joking - right?

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=134142

And know that I can do this for at least 30 links to Glock failures - and FBI warnings - including the actual LETS teletype messages in two cases -against Glocks blowing up in agents hands.

No offense to Glock.
No offense to Sig.
No offense to H&K.
No offense to S&W.

All have had problems in agencies. NONE are exempt. However, saying one is better than another is simply inaccurate when it comes to resolving the issues.
Trust me, as a Glock carrier of 16 years, I'm no stranger to their failings. When I say they work, I mean with an acceptable standard of reliability, just like the SIG, HK, M&P, etc. any of those four pistols I have enough confidence in to pick one up off a gun store shelf and throw it in a holster. Of course I wouldn't do this, since every gun needs to be proven...I'm just saying if I were forced to do so, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I did an informal poll on another forum years ago that hundreds of people replied to. My question was how many pistols had a non-ammo related stoppage in the first 300 rounds. Glocks, SIGs, HK's, M&Ps, etc, all had roughly 90% success rates (among sample sizes in the hundreds for each platform). No major 1911 brand had higher than a 50% success rate, and I should add that this poll was done on a 1911 forum. Long story short, you're preaching to the choir about no gun being infallible .
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Old 05-18-2017, 05:46 PM   #64
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Something doesn't smell right.

And it's New Jersey. We're talking about the state that banned hollow points.

Do they even know what guns are in New Jersey?

My guess is politics, money, bout it. Not because Sigs are defective. Texas DPS had problems with S&W, went back to Sig. I don't think they sued S&W over it.
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:05 PM   #65
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And it's New Jersey. We're talking about the state that banned hollow points.

That is incorrect... hollow points are sold at gun shops in NJ.

The misconception is that if you commit a crime with a firearm with hollow points in NJ, it is an extra charge that is added to the list. Want to say it is a fourth degree charge... but it's late, and I had a long day (it's either that or third).
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:21 PM   #66
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I thought you also cannot lawfully carry with hollow points either, that is the few people who can carry there.
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:12 PM   #67
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not surprised. Sig has had more QC issues than any other manufacturer.

Ive been saying this for a long time,
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:44 PM   #68
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not surprised. Sig has had more QC issues than any other manufacturer.

Ive been saying this for a long time,
Oh wow...then you've never heard of Remington. Remington have been plagued with epic QC problems with the best selling commercial bolt action and the best selling pump shotgun of all time. Or Glock for that matter, who had their single most popular LE pistol across the country fall out of favor overnight...not just a single department with issues, but an entire nation.

SIG CQ is actually better today than it was 15 years ago. The same can't be said for a number of other gun companies. Take a look at the sheer numbers of LE and Federal agencies and militaries who issue the P226 and the P229, and then let me know why the sky is falling because a single agency is reporting massive problems. Every major gun company has had to ramp up production to meet the demand of a panicked nation in the years before this last election. Nobody is immune from QC issues when that happens. SIG have weathered the storm as well as most, and better than many. Pick a manufacturer at random and then hop on their forum...but prepare yourself for alarmist reactions of impending doom. if you think SIG have had more QC issues than any other manufacturer, I'm afraid you can't see the forest for the trees.

As another member correctly pointed out, did you notice the problems this agency are suing for happened 3 years ago??? So please let us know where the rash of other QC problems have been hidden for these years. We have all been told about the horrible Legion finish, and yet after the 2(?) years Legions have been in existence we are still hearing about and being shown the same 10 photos, with a new one popping up every year or so. Disproportionate reporting is easy to fall prey to. The rumor mill is a powerful thing.
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Last edited by Jedi5150; 05-18-2017 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:09 PM   #69
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You can buy hollow points in NJ. The hard part is getting pulled over while transporting them. They are for HD or range use only so you can supposedly carry from the LGS to your home or from your home to the range. I read somewhere that if you buy a new home in NJ and already live there, that there is no legal method to transport your HD ammo to your new abode, lol.

The most idiotic part of their law is that the politicians thought they were banning armour piercing rounds so there they sit. I know there are two sides to the NJ-Sig gun buy story but it's hard to argue for the competency of NJ "leadership" in so many cases. After a $350M dollar contract win, the vultures are bellying up to the trough.
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:28 PM   #70
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These quality items happening over and over, is hurting my thoughts in regards to Sig's ability to get some of their handguns right.

With Sig jumping into Optics and into the Mfg. of Ammo. i feel right now they need to get back to the basics of their handguns.


Agree - I am down to 2 Sigs only due to QA issues. They have spread themselves quite thin and seem to be willing to accept a higher failure rate than the pistol only days.


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Old 05-19-2017, 04:50 AM   #71
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Seems like an odd event to go this far. Stinks like there is political CYA stuff going on somewhere in the process or many places in the process.

P229.............is consistently, over and over, one the favorites on this forum for people. That doesn't happen if they are a piece of junk.

Years of usage, many places, lots and lots of solid reliability.

Then suddenly New Jersey gets a bunch of P229's that don't work. Really? Really?

Righhhhhht.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:31 AM   #72
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Seems like an odd event to go this far. Stinks like there is political CYA stuff going on somewhere in the process or many places in the process.

P229.............is consistently, over and over, one the favorites on this forum for people. That doesn't happen if they are a piece of junk.

Years of usage, many places, lots and lots of solid reliability.

Then suddenly New Jersey gets a bunch of P229's that don't work. Really? Really?

Righhhhhht.
No dude, they haven't all of a sudden gotten a bunch of guns that don't work. These things are usually over a company refusing to fix a few things, which relates directly to customer service. There is nothing fishy about it. I'm willing to bet the dept wanted Sig to replace the guns they've had issues with, and Sig said they will either fix them or swap them for a used gun when the dept wants new guns for them. Maybe the department has had Sig "fix" the guns in question (which is probably not that many), and they're still having problems with them. There could be any number of legitimate scenarios in which this has played out. I really can't believe that people don't consider things like this and just blindly drink a particular cool-aid. Just read through this thread and you'll find no shortage of people who have admitted to having problems with their Sigs. Contrary to some opinions, no gun is perfect, and sorry customer service is more often than not the cause of these kinds of suits.

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Old 05-19-2017, 09:58 AM   #73
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No dude, they haven't all of a sudden gotten a bunch of guns that don't work. These things are usually over a company refusing to fix a few things, which relates directly to customer service. There is nothing fishy about it. I'm willing to bet the dept wanted Sig to replace the guns they've had issues with, and Sig said they will either fix them or swap them for a used gun when the dept wants new guns for them. Maybe the department has had Sig "fix" the guns in question (which is probably not that many), and they're still having problems with them. There could be any number of legitimate scenarios in which this has played out. I really can't believe that people don't consider things like this and just blindly drink a particular cool-aid. Just read through this thread and you'll find no shortage of people who have admitted to having problems with their Sigs. Contrary to some opinions, no gun is perfect, and sorry customer service is more often than not the cause of these kinds of suits.
Everything you said is all supposition. Everything I read says Sig did tried rectify the situation, but New Jersey is suing for damages, something like less than 3 million. Rather than let Sig make it right, New Jersey up and decided to cancel their contract. Lets hear all sides of the story before your typical Sig bashing, shall we?
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:18 PM   #74
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No dude, they haven't all of a sudden gotten a bunch of guns that don't work. These things are usually over a company refusing to fix a few things, which relates directly to customer service. There is nothing fishy about it. I'm willing to bet the dept wanted Sig to replace the guns they've had issues with, and Sig said they will either fix them or swap them for a used gun when the dept wants new guns for them. Maybe the department has had Sig "fix" the guns in question (which is probably not that many), and they're still having problems with them. There could be any number of legitimate scenarios in which this has played out. I really can't believe that people don't consider things like this and just blindly drink a particular cool-aid. Just read through this thread and you'll find no shortage of people who have admitted to having problems with their Sigs. Contrary to some opinions, no gun is perfect, and sorry customer service is more often than not the cause of these kinds of suits.
Everything you said is all supposition. Everything I read says Sig did tried rectify the situation, but New Jersey is suing for damages, something like less than 3 million. Rather than let Sig make it right, New Jersey up and decided to cancel their contract. Lets hear all sides of the story before your typical Sig bashing, shall we?
Causal? Coincidence? Impossible to get a clear sight picture from anti gunner MSM so looked up the tort environment for states to verify what my wife has been telling me as she has a background in this area. Sig gets an enormous contract and the lawsuits start dropping, hmm..... I can look at NJ and consider the source. They suck and I'll bet Sig wishes they never cut a contract with them but too late. I'll bet a state like NJ that has only 1,200 active concealed carry permits love gun companies.

The other gun manufacturer on the other hand is just a circular firing squad. The industry doesn't need infighting on dubious lawsuit allegations of infringement that never saw the light of day until Sig got a healthy Government contract. The timing on both suits speaks volumes about the court loving bottom feeders. A fairly good link on the subject:

https://www.lexisnexis.com/legalnews...spx?Redirected
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:11 PM   #75
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Everything you said is all supposition. Everything I read says Sig did tried rectify the situation, but New Jersey is suing for damages, something like less than 3 million. Rather than let Sig make it right, New Jersey up and decided to cancel their contract. Lets hear all sides of the story before your typical Sig bashing, shall we?
Of course it is supposition, based on what I've read. I don't know the whole story anymore than you do, but again, the point of what I said is that most of the suits take place over dissatisfaction with customer service rather than making a statement that the gun itself (meaning all the guns) don't work. Surely you understood that. What damages NJ is suing for is really irrelevant as it relates to WHY they're suing. As I said, there are any number of scenarios that could have taken place as to what was attempted to be done to resolve the matter, but evidently the State of New Jersey wasn't satisfied by those attempts. And, I have never bashed Sig, so let's get our facts straight before we try to set anyone else straight...shall we?

Last edited by GCBHM; 05-19-2017 at 02:13 PM.
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