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Another 9mm vs 40cal vs 45ACP debate from a restricted capacity point of view

10K views 58 replies 40 participants last post by  Jcoleman571 
#1 ·
First of all, I'm a long time Sig owner starting with a W. German P226 9mm and now I have a P220 Dark Elite. I've been out of shooting for a number of years but am now getting back in to it. This is a fine forum and I wish I had come across it years ago!

I know there have been endless debates about 9mm vs 40cal vs 45ACP with pros and cons and benefits to capacity and caliber. What I haven't seen, or at least haven't come across is, what if you're unfortunate enough to live in a state with restricted magazine capacity? If this has been covered before, I apologize.

Many of you are probably aware that in NY, for quite a few years, any magazines over 10 rounds where prohibited unless your higher capacity mag was manufactured before the ban and then it was grandfathered in. Now, with the unfortunate SAFE act passage, even those previous, legally owned, standard high capacity magazines are now illegal and must be turned in, destroyed or sent out of state. They initially restricted us to 7 rounds but at least that has been change to allow 10 although the 7 round limit could return. So nobody can have over 10 rounds.

So, what I'm curious about is how does this change the comparison? 15 rounds of 9mm vs 8 45ACP is a bit different than 10 9mm vs 8 45. I'm interested in your thoughts.

Thanks,
Dave
 
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#4 ·
We have similar laws here in Canuckistan. Limited to 10 rds for pistols. So, the debate is very short and simple here. I keep a mag of .45 for my P220 Equinox with Speers in my safe. If I ever need more than 8 rounds of that, I don't think 10 of the 9mm Gold Dot is going to make any difference.
 
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#6 ·
One of the nicer things about living in Texas is that there is no magazine capacity limit. With that said, I agree with Chupacabras (we have those here in Texas) that 10 .45s are better than 10 9mms. Heck, we even have a local brewery that thinks a 6 pack, or 12, or 24 isn't enough......They have come out with a 99 pack of beer!
 
#12 ·
Welcome.

Going just on capacity I too will say .45. I'm wondering if you're going to get any other answer!

Not much of a debate as I doubt anyone will say 10 of the smaller caliber. Of course one could bring up recoil and opt for the 9. The 40 might lose if recoil is considered. However, practice should overcome or at least mitigate any recoil arguments. I can now shoot a 40 like it was a 9, they don't feel very different to me at all any more.

A couple of years ago I dedicated a bunch of hours and scoured the internet trying to choose the best SD ammo for 9, 40 and .45. After looking at FBI ballistic data and hordes of gel tests and charts and reading about shootouts, etc. I came to the conclusion that the smaller the bullet, the smaller my choices were for good results. When you got to .45, it didn't seem to matter as even ball ammo expanded and penetrated extremely well.

My new mantra is small gun, small bullet, large gun, large bullet. This keeps the capacity at a comfortable level for me.

You might like the Glock 30S.
 
#16 ·
Going just on capacity I too will say .45. I'm wondering if you're going to get any other answer!
I figured the consensus would probably be 45!

Welcome fellow New Yorker! You're bound to get the all time favorite (useless) response soon... MOVE. For those of us that choose, want or have to stay here, 10 rounds is what we have to live with. I have 3 pistol calibers, 22, 9 and 40, no 45 yet, but if they ever release the 45 kit for the P320, I'm in! I've also been eyeballing a Ruger 357 mag. I think we have more of a reason for practice and preparation than those without mag capacity restrictions. I don't feel more rounds is a substitute for marksmanship. Join an IDPA/USPSA/ steel challenge group and find out how much better you can be. I'm 52 and shoot with guys from 20's to 70's. I give and get plenty of advise, pointers, tips and guidance from that group of shooters. The courses make you shoot off balance, off handed, odd scenarios. It teaches target identification and acquisition, safe handling, accuracy and speed. I've been involved for a few months, shot 1 competition, but what I've learned is impossible to put a price on. There's guys I shoot with that make me fear the 22, and women that are surprisingly competent shooters. 10 rounds is more than enough, if you need a handgun for defense, prepare to hit what you aim for and pray you never need to aim for someone to hit.
Yes, moving would be nice but is not an option right now. Actually, if you can get past the gun laws and the high taxes (and the welfare system, and the...), NY is a pretty nice state. Where do you do your shooting? I'm in the Rochester area.
 
#13 ·
Welcome fellow New Yorker! You're bound to get the all time favorite (useless) response soon... MOVE. For those of us that choose, want or have to stay here, 10 rounds is what we have to live with. I have 3 pistol calibers, 22, 9 and 40, no 45 yet, but if they ever release the 45 kit for the P320, I'm in! I've also been eyeballing a Ruger 357 mag. I think we have more of a reason for practice and preparation than those without mag capacity restrictions. I don't feel more rounds is a substitute for marksmanship. Join an IDPA/USPSA/ steel challenge group and find out how much better you can be. I'm 52 and shoot with guys from 20's to 70's. I give and get plenty of advise, pointers, tips and guidance from that group of shooters. The courses make you shoot off balance, off handed, odd scenarios. It teaches target identification and acquisition, safe handling, accuracy and speed. I've been involved for a few months, shot 1 competition, but what I've learned is impossible to put a price on. There's guys I shoot with that make me fear the 22, and women that are surprisingly competent shooters. 10 rounds is more than enough, if you need a handgun for defense, prepare to hit what you aim for and pray you never need to aim for someone to hit.
 
#14 ·
I live in CA & am also restricted to 10 rd mags. That's why I have a 227. If I'm limited to 10, my 10 are going to be the biggest 10 I can get. That said, I wouldn't have a problem carrying in 9mm though. Good, heavy, HP 9mm defensive rounds will do serious damage, just don't pack the amount of energy & wallop of a .45 round. If you're talking all-purpose weapon, definitely .45 in a mag limit restricted state. For carry, 9mm lets you have more capacity than a comparably sized compact or subcompact .45. That is my opinion, YMMV
 
#22 ·
I grew up with wheelguns and 1911's and I really don't feel underguned with either.
Wheelguns I prefer 45 Colt or 45 acp. In my opinion both are a better defensive round than 44 mag.
Semi-auto, my 220 Compact, Kobra Carry, and New Agent. Two are 7+1 and one is a 6+1 in 45.

Does NY limit how many guns you can carry? Like primary and backup if need be?
 
#24 ·
Go with the heaviest round that you can shoot accurately and can control. Doesn't matter the round if you can't hit the threat in a vital area to cause shock and trauma, you're wasting ammo and putting yourself in more danger. What's even more important is range time and training to deliver effective fire on a threat. I have no problem carrying 9mm, 40cal, or 45cal.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Welcome!

For more years than I care to talk about I was 45acp only. Period. End of statement. The only 9mm I would have in my collection was a curio and relic P38, Inglis High Power.....maybe a M9. Just stuff from history. 45acp was it.

Now a few years ago I met a fellow who trains at a very renowned shooting school. He lives guns, training, shooting and even gun smithing. I value his opinion. I was in the market for a pistol and I was kind of expecting to says some kind of 1911. His said the only guns he would shoot were/ are Glocks, HK and SIGs. As a side note he shoots hundred of thousands of rounds a year. He also recommended 9mm. What 9mm!? I started doing some research on 9mm. Well I am a convert.

Long story short, more bullets on target faster. No pistol bullet is all that. No magic solution. Keep on target, empty your mag (if needed) and work on speedy mag changes.

Whatever you choose will be fine.....I still carry a 220 carry SAS often. I did not totally closed my mind to 45acp. I just opened my mind to 9mm.

Goodluck and remember, these are the good ol days!
 
#35 ·
Long story short, more bullets on target faster. No pistol bullet is all that. No magic solution. Keep on target, empty your mag (if needed) and work on speedy mag changes.
With 9 mm, you are going to need more rounds on target.

At any reasonably expected range for an encounter, most shooters can put three rounds of .45 ACP into the center torso just as quickly as three rounds of 9 mm.

As far as the "shot placement" theory goes, fine shot placement goes out the window as the adrenalin surge kicks in, emotions go through the roof and your heart is beating so hard you can hear it in your ears.

Only the highly trained pros are going to have fine shot placement under actual circumstances.
 
#28 · (Edited)
So, what I'm curious about is how does this change the comparison? 15 rounds of 9mm vs 8 45ACP is a bit different than 10 9mm vs 8 45. I'm interested in your thoughts.

Thanks,
Dave

I own several 10 rounds 45acp mags. Rounds are way bigger than 9mm, making 15 rounds mags for 45acp will need larger mags sticking out a lot. While 9mm Luger is the best overall round, I like 45acp very much, it makes way larger holes too :)
 
#29 ·
If I were restricted to 10 rounds then 9mm would probably not be my first choice :)

If told to choose between 9mm, .40S&W, and .45acp and only allowed 10 rounds then the choice is very easy, I would go with .45acp.

If I were limited to 10 rounds then I would also be living in a blue state and would prefer a revolver for "legal" reasons. Pick up a .44mag and if you have to defend yourself you will not leave any brass behind (and remember to never touch the actual bullet when loading).

The .44mag is also great because if you are recoil sensitive just pick up .44 special...and you will still hit as hard as .45acp. If you have never fired .44 from a revolver (mag or special) they are beautifully accurate.
 
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