This is a discussion on SIG quality within the SIG Sauer Pistols forums, part of the SIG Sauer Forum category; Does anybody know what specifically is going on at SIG? Why are so many of their new pistols having problems? Look at what so many ...
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|09-20-2012, 07:12 PM||#1|
Join Date: Feb 2012
Does anybody know what specifically is going on at SIG? Why are so many of their new pistols having problems? Look at what so many early P238 owners went through (including me). Then the 938 owners going through the same thing, if not worse. And now this about the 224...
Yes, we've heard comments like, "putting profit before quality," but that's pretty general. I'm just curious where these design flaws are actually COMING from. Is it a specific person or persons? A new CEO? Were they bought out by a sewing machine company? SIG has a history of being one of the most life-and-death-reliable pistols on the planet, and look at them now, when so many other guns will consistently fire anything you can stuff in the magazine, right out of the box.
I remember buying my new P238 - my first SIG, I was really excited - and getting several FTE/FTF per box, until SIG (thank you, Andy) sent me the correct spring and I got some Gen II magazines with the "nipple."
Then I got a 2022, and it constantly failed to lock back. I had to ship it to SIG. The slide needed "adjusting" and the slide lock lever retaining spring was bent. It shoots fine now, but still.
Somebody, somewhere, has been making the decision to release these guns before they're ready to be released, the hell with the customer or SIG's formerly pristine reputation. Who is it?
|09-21-2012, 02:37 AM||#2|
Join Date: Jan 2012
I have German,W. German and American and never had a problem . Side by side all together I see no differnce or feel no differnce when comparing them. They all shoot great.
|09-21-2012, 02:41 AM||#3|
Join Date: Dec 2010
How can there be a P224 quality issue even the P224 isn't available yet?
I think you're listening to the hype. Sig still makes a perfectly good pistol. Some people are just purists.
|09-21-2012, 03:15 AM||#4|
Join Date: Jul 2012
anytime you take a recipe' and try to make changes whether they be what you think are improvements or changes to streamline production or lower costs you take the chance of either improving the product (making you a hero) or damaging the brand (making you a villain)...
I have owned many SiG pistols since 1988 and have owned both new and old and have had few issues with either...I prefer the older ones because that's what I started with but I have a newer Ernest Langdon P220, GSR Revolution STX, 556 and had a P220 Compact...no real worries...
|09-21-2012, 04:17 AM||#5|
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Central Pa.
From my picky perspective, the 229 and 226 I have handled have been spot on perfect. Fit and finish was significantly better than their competition. Because of this, I ordered a new P229 Elite Dark and it was "custom gun" good in its performance and fit and finish. From what I have seen, most of this so called "trouble with Sigs quality" are misinformation planted by trolls with other agendas and motives. Think the movie "Wag the dog". Just start a thread like "trouble with" and it starts the misinformation frenzy all over again bringing out the trolls just to give their biased 2cents why their brand is far superior. It's very hard to separate legitimate issues anymore even on a brand specific forum.
Last edited by Mystro; 09-21-2012 at 04:40 AM.
|09-21-2012, 04:49 AM||#6|
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
I'm also sure that with any new design or "platform" of pistol there may or may not be issues. Its like a brand new car, in my opinion its always best to wait a while, year or two, for the bugs to get worked out of a brand new design. Just my thought.
The 226 and 229 have been around for a while so they should run like a scolded dog(pretty damn good).
Last edited by jcraven; 09-21-2012 at 04:53 AM.
|09-21-2012, 05:40 AM||#7|
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NE OH
Whenever you ramp up production to meet demand QC will suffer. It's not only Sig but all manufacturers. Use cheaper made parts to cut costs, eliminate jobs in the quality control department, don't final inspect or test fire weapons, it all comes back to haunt ya.
And a lot of it isn't misinformation by trolls, I bought my first Sig in 1985, a beautiful tysons corner P226, and I've seen the degradation in quality first hand. From lousy machining to missing finish to magazines and weapons that just won't function. That was unheard of 20 years ago.
I was thinking of getting rid of my 15 year old P239 357, then in a moment of clarity I slapped myself.
|09-21-2012, 05:42 AM||#8|
Join Date: Mar 2012
There's a lot changing at Sig and has been since Cohen took over. Those of us who have been a Sig fan from the beginning forecast what would happen with him in control and, sadly, it is coming true.
Cost-cutting is job #1 at Sig today. The production move from Germany to the U.S. has been a disaster. Modern production Sigs are a shame when compared to the beautiful craftmanship of 20 years ago.
Job #2 is one that has swept the entire industry: modify all guns so that females can shoot them. This is a mandate from the government, as women continue to flood the military and LEO departments across the country. E2 grips and "short" triggers are the result.
Job #3 is also one sweeping the industry: make all guns smaller. In Sig's case, that isn't going well. When they decided to get outside their comfort zone, and create something new (like the P290), it was a disaster. The P220 Carry was originally a disaster, as the shorter slide caused the gun to fail after just a few hundred rounds with all the pounding. After numerous modifications, Sig has mostly made the P220 Carry function correctly but we still don't know for sure what the gun's reliability will be after many thousands of rounds. The same is true of the P224. They have taken a proven design and tried to "shrink" it. It isn't working. The P224 is a nightmare for Sig. The gun cannot handle the increased pressure being exerted in such a smaller design and it is breaking after just a few hundred rounds. There's a chance the P224 will never be released and, if it is, it's going to be a while. Like I said earlier, it's a nightmare for Sig.
The guns that Sig is making in Exeter, the ones that have a history of success, are mostly ok. They are not as tight as their predecessors but they function. The new guns, the ones Sig is trying to invent to compete in the industry and to satisfy government demands, are not doing well. They are cheapening the reputation of a once dominant gun manufacturer. That description will never fit Sig again as long as Cohen is there.
|09-21-2012, 08:14 AM||#9|
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Northern Virginia
Concerning the P224 issues, I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the physics/mechanics of why reducing the barrel, slide, and handle length would cause failure in an already proven design. I don't claim to know anything about the design (or redesign) , but why the gun would have so much trouble handling the pressures in a smaller package when it's based on a time proven design? Is the slide being made from lighter, thinner materials to save weight? Other manufactures are producing small, successful handguns, so I'm curious what the root of the problem is with this one.
But I'm quite glad SIG is trying to make it good before going into full distribution.
|09-21-2012, 11:00 AM||#10|
Join Date: May 2012
My first Sig was a Sept. 2011-made 2022 in 9mm from Exeter. Right out the box, it's been a honey.
My second was a 551-A1. It is maligned on some boards, largely because of (a) the proprietary magazines and the rock-in (AK-47) style of insertion and (b) the quality of the rear diopter sight.
The mag issue is not large for me. I'm not an operator or patrolman. And, were I, I do know how to do a tactical mag change with that style. The rear diopter...I do not like it and now have an Eeotch 512 on the rifle, as well as the emergency flip-up. I can tell you the gun has been a good shooter and bobble-free to date with all Lake City I've run through it.
Seems to me Sig is still making some very decent, operable guns. Would I like to find a sweet deal on a German-made Sig? You bet. But the two currently in the safe are hardly a couple of POS.
Last edited by MGF; 09-21-2012 at 11:04 AM.
|09-22-2012, 07:52 AM||#11|
Join Date: Sep 2012
Try a classic series pistol. I have had few problems with my p238, other than one or two fail to feeds. Those were right out of the box. I expected there to be a break in anyway. Shoots great now. Just needed breaking in. The p238 is not the gun to judge Sig on. It is a different platform from the classics. All it is a pocket pistol & not a range gun. Buy a classic series gun next time. My p220 is my favorite handgun.
|09-22-2012, 02:25 PM||#12|
Join Date: Oct 2011
Here's the real difference between Sig and Glock:
Glock introduces a perfectly reliable gun and turns it into a turd.
Sig introduces a turd and turns it into a perfectly reliable gun.
|09-22-2012, 02:56 PM||#13|
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Northeast Illinois too close to Chicago
I agree with txshurricane about the P224 - it is not even for sale yet!!
As far as the P210/P220/P226/P228/P229/P239, they are still world class top tier pistols well worth the price of investment.
|09-22-2012, 03:22 PM||#14|
Join Date: Sep 2012
I had my doubts with sig...new p238,my "first" sig...3 weeks old including a week back to sig...but all is good...love this lil gun...
|09-22-2012, 05:27 PM||#15|
Join Date: Mar 2012
I'm guessing we're the "Porsche Owners" of handguns...nitpicking over every minor issue.
Polishing, pimping, tuning, never leaving them alone in the quest for any minor improvement.
I'm guilty too of demanding as close to perfection as possible when it comes to a mass produced factory gun. I've heard the "Biz" knows most guns will be shot once or twice..cleaned/polished and put away without much further use.
Somehow I think we're different here....give'em more use and demand better/ accurate/reliable performance.
I'm a happy camper with my 226 that started "life" as a P-226 .22 LR Classic.
But it did have to go back home for some accuracy issues in both its' .22 and .357sig configurations.
Last edited by drshame; 09-22-2012 at 05:30 PM.
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