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SIG 716 PROBLEMS. inspect your rifles.

92K views 193 replies 58 participants last post by  Dirtbikeracer716 
#1 · (Edited)
I purchased a sig 716 earlier on this year. I waited 7 months to receive it. Soon after my purchase i read that sig has obtained a multi million dollar contract with the Gov. I worried that now with this sick high demand has been put on sig. There will be some quality issuance issues. Sigs supply did not meet the demand. So i figured that they would be shipping out guns at a high rate. This rate would effect the quality of the guns.

My sig showed up and i noticed that it did not have the magpul stock and pistol grip on it. My theory on that is. Sig went the more affordable route and put their own stock on the gun so that they can ship out more product.

My sig was damaging the tip of the rounds as it would enter the barrel. picks below. I sent it back to sig and they stated that they fixed the fail to feed issue. I got the rifle back and now its a lot better but it still is damaging the tip of the bullet. Now the gun is going back a second time. I am a sig fan i own 3 sigs and i will continue to buy more. I am upset that this $2500 gun is having issues. Its a 1k yard gun and it should not be at this poor quality.

My suggestion is to feed a round into the chamber and then slowly manual eject the round and inspect the the tip of the bullet.
 

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#38 ·
Im new here and just ordered my Sig 716 precision marksman today, I have had other 308 AR style rifles I had a LR 308 it had FTF, FTE issues big time. The factory tech told me dip the BCG in a can of oil shake it off and shoot it. He also said to use grease not oil . That was 7 years ago no FTF or FTE ever. Clean factory lube out, grease it and go, All manufactures are having this same problem Colt, LMT, M&P etc these rifles need to be wet. Its like wet sanding it to perfection then it will run. 250 - 500 rounds later you wont even think about it.
 
#39 ·
I don't have a FTF or FTE. It's the damage to the bullet when it chambers I'm worried about. It's slight but noticeable when I eject the the non-fired round and inspect it. Some one told me today that it is normal is some guns. But it was the first time he saw a 716 do that. He stated it would be OK out to 500 yards and 1000 would be out if the question. He also suggest that I run a lot of rounds through it to break it in. That might fix the issue. I just hate that I have to spend extra money on breaking in the gun. With the addition of the constant price of ammunition going up. I am not looking forward to it. I paid for an out of the box percussion firearm and that is not what I'm getting.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk
 
#49 · (Edited)
Just got my 716 in December. It has the new Sig logo (see avatar) stamped into the lower. It also had the crappy Sig branded stock which felt like a meat tenderizer on my shoulder.

I read the manual which says to thoroughly clean the rifle before shooting it. I did and had high hopes for my first time at the range. I had 3 new Gen 3 (10rd) PMags to test. I was using using American Eagle 150grn ammo. This ammo is made by Federal in Lake City. The first few mags were a festival of misdeeds. The problems were limited to only the first two or three rounds in each mag.

I noticed the tips of the ejected but unfired bullets were deformed as others have mentioned. However, reliability seemed to improve as more rounds went down range. I was careful to properly seat the mags and the range officer suggested I let the bolt slam home as part of my routine. I had been just releasing the charging handle and letting it spring forward. Using the bolt release did seem to help. Everything about this rifle is tight - so much so, I have to use a mallet to tap out the forward release pin on the lower!

I will try to get back out in the next week or two to see if the second and more stringent cleaning helps.

By the way, I spent the extra money to replace the meat hammer Sig calls a stock. I added the Magpul ACS and a Limb Saver Precision Fit butt pad. Should be a walk in the park next range trip - provided this thing runs.
 
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#53 ·
By the way, I spent the extra money to replace the meat hammer Sig calls a stock. I added the Magpul ACS and a Limb Saver Precision Fit butt pad. Should be a walk in the park next range trip - provided this thing runs.
This is of interest first being new to high power rifles, second, not having shot my new 716 and in the interim, third, just having had rotator cuff surgery. :(

Where did you get these goodies and how much ? Might you have a picture ?
 
#54 ·
@RobRoy01,

The recoil over all is very manageable but you will feel it after about 50 rounds with the Sig stock. It's not a shoulder wrenching recoil but more of a slow burn on the skin and surrounding muscles - depending how you shoulder the rifle. I have about 50+ staples in the muscles around my upper chest and shoulder after surviving stage 3 melanoma. Having all my lymph nodes removed with the surgical equivelant of a Mellon baller, the rifle gives me no trouble at all where my surgeries are concerned.

That said, the stock I added was a Mil Spec Magpul ACS. I added a Limb Saver Precision Magpul pad to that for a total cost of about $130 (Amazon) and I'm completely satisfied with the set up. I fired off about 200 rounds yesterday with zero pain or bruising and could have easily done more. If you have shoulder issues, this is probably money well spent.

Prior to going out, I re-cleaned the rifle and smothered it in a good lather of TW25 grease. The grease worked great! It ran almost flawlessly.

The only issue I'm having is the rifle does not feed reliably from a full mag. Sometimes it's fine, sometimes it's not going fully into battery from a full mag. The tips of the bullets are no longer badly deformed. It's definitely improving as I run the gun. It is a tack driver at 100 yards. I can't wait to get out further but my range is limited.

If I run 9rds in my 10 rd mags or 19 in my 20 rd mags, the rifle feeds fine. The feed problem could be related to the springs in the Magpul mags being stiff or it could be that Sig didn't get the angle right in design - which is why they're polishing feed ramps as standard response to the issues folks have had. I figure I can live without the rifle for two weeks and let Sig sort it out. While Sig has the rifle, I'll leave the mags fully loaded to help soften the springs a little.

I hated the idea of sending the rifle back at first but after zeroing the rifle and getting some problem free range time in, I think it's a minor inconvenience worth doing.
 
#55 · (Edited)
I really think that monstrous amounts of grease + oil may solve the problem.

My rifles have been running hideously overlubed with such from the get - go, and I've recently backed off from greasing the bolt / barrel extension.

I have since applied only the barest minimum of grease, to the parts where the bolt carrier makes contact with the receiver. I use some oil on the bolt head and barrel extension.

It may sound silly, but give it a shot, you've got nothing to lose.



 
#56 ·
I guess it's akin to something like sharpening a knife until it has a mirror finish...
 
#60 · (Edited)
See my post above for the issues I'm having. Mostly fail to feed from a full mag.

By the way, I ran several different types of ammo in my last nearly flawless range trip. PMC, American Eagle, 150grn, Winchester 7.62x51 147grn and PPC 168grn.

I just called Sig to arrange a return for service. Dude took my serial number and said; "that rifle is not California compliant. If you send it here, we will not return it." I said, "It was sold to me that way (CA Compliant) so what do I have? A two thousand dollar paperweight?" He said, "I'll check." He came back and said send it in. I verified they plan to return it. Gave me a very nice uptick in my heart rate. Sig provided a shipping label and instructions to return it with the magazine because of the feed problems.

From what it looks like, there's a good bit of play where the mag seats in the mag well. If it isn't just right, the bullet gets slammed into a nice flat spot where the feed ramp should be. I'll try to get a pic or two up soon.

I will report what Sig does in about 2-3weeks.
 
#61 ·
I just talked to them as well, he said to try different magazines. I have a Magpul Gen2 10/20 limiter that wiggles when inserted. I just bought some new Gen3 Mags and they seem to fit better, we'll see.

@ Chace4nyc:
Everything that could go wrong, has been. Failure to feed and fire, failure to extract the casing, getting lodged in the window. Riflegear in FV said they've sold that gun and I'm the only one who has a problem. Maybe it's me, idk. Bottom line, if the **** I'm ******!
 
#62 ·
Man, the guy that you spoke to must have been a real *****. I sent my rifle back twice and they never ask me any of those questions. One guy tried to make it seem like it was the ammunition that I was using was causing the problem. But never did they ask me to send the rifle back with the magazine. The gun seems to feed fine now but I have yet to take it to the range. The issue that I'm still having is it is still chipping the tip of the bullet just slightly whenever it feed.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk
 
#63 ·
I've talked to SIG twice, the first guy was cool and said it's your ammo and you need to clean your gun. So I did exactly that, cleaned her up and bought quality ammo, same result. Spoke with ANDY today and he sounded annoyed, as if "their" guns aren't the problem, it's the "out of factory modifications" to the magazines that are the problem. Yet, there are complaints here, youtube, etc. about this gun's cycling issues. I'm giving it one more chance and it's going back to SIG.
 
#65 ·
Yeah the guy I spoke to DEFINITELY needs some customer service training. That said, I don't care who answers the phone, I care who works on my rifle. And that it's fixed.

Over lubricating the rifle with TW25 fixed 99% of my issues. Now it's just a matter of gun smithing what should have been done on the assembly line.

FWIW, I'm using brand new Gen 3 Magpul 10and 20 round mags. Although I trust Magpul implicitly, I have also heard similar feed complaints from new Ruger 7.62 owners. That may point to Magpul as a part of the problem. I'll be contacting them if problems persist. Meanwhile, Sig has a responsibility to its own brand reputation to get this right. I'm willing to give them the opportunity.

Patience is not my forte. Had I been patient, I would have kept saving for the LWRC.
 
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#66 ·
I tell you this, if a Sig rep blamed 147 grain Nato load on the problem i would go off.:mad: The whole point of buying a 7.62X51 is the capability of picking up NATO rounds and using it on the battlefield. At the very least take advantage of military surplus that will come our way once our military dumps all its lead rounds after the "green" mandate.

So far my riffle has performed well, but i would not accept this weapon if it didn't eat up 147 grain Nato stuff.
 
#67 ·
I watched this video where the person stated. When a gun manufacturer has a high volume of orders and supply don't meet the demand. The manufacturer buys gun parts form their competitors. It might say sig on the lower but it might originally come from ruger.

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#68 ·
I don't know why the bullets are deforming, I can tell you that there were occasions when my 716 wouldn't go completely into battery. I was told by someone at Sig Sauer to use some grease on the bolt until the gun broke in. That did the trick for me. FYI
 
#69 ·
What follows is opinion. It is based on my observation but I have no training or expertise in gun smithing.

It's my very unscientific belief the feed ramps are not cut deep enough into the mag well. I think the bolt catches the bullet and slams it into the flat area between or below the feed ramps. The bullets get crushed. That plus the bolt is easy to keep from going into battery. I can release the charging handle slowly and let the bolt creep forward and it will not go into battery on its own. If I let the charging handle go or use the bolt catch/release it slams into place because of the force of the spring but it does not naturally go into battery. Maybe it's not supposed to but the tolerances on this rifle are extremely tight.

This is where grease is your friend.
 
#71 ·
They are not admitting anything to me. I asked more than 10 of them when I called. I even called 5 times in one day to check if in wold get a different response. The all said the same thing. The rifle is not supposed to do that.
I'm Noob when it comes to rifles but I completely understand the function of most parts in all firearms. That feed ramp seems to be off. Like i state on a few of these posts. The bullet hits the feed ramp. Then the tip of the round slams on the rim of the barrel. Sometimes causing it not to feed or just damaging the tip of the bullet. It was so bad that I sent the gun to sig twice. The gun is still doing the same thing but on a decreased scale. It's still hitting the rim and not as bad as it use to. From my understanding of the functionality of this system. The bullet should not hit the rim of the barrel at all. I was told this problem is uncommon for sig rifles. They do happen in other brands. It feels like sig just slap the gun together and sent it out.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk
 
#73 · (Edited)
Here's a pic of the 716 feed ramp

Here's a pic of the feed ramps. Note the arrow pointing at obvious dings in the metal where bullet tips have slammed into the wall. From the point of impact, you can see the feed ramps clearly. They do not appear deep enough to my untrained eyes. I'll post another picture once the rifle returns from Sig for comparison.



FWIW, Ruger is having similar problems with their SR762.
 
#76 ·
Here's a pic of the feed ramps. Note the arrow pointing at obvious dings in the metal where bullet tips have slammed into the wall. From the point of impact, you can see the feed ramps clearly. They do not appear deep enough to my untrained eyes. I'll post another picture once the rifle returns from Sig for comparison.



FWIW, Ruger is having similar problems with their SR762.
I may be wrong, but there are two feed ramps to accomodate the double stack configuration of cartridges in the magazine. Is that right?

So, to me, the interesting thing is that those impacts below your ramps are centered... suggesting that the cartridge is somehow misaligned as it leaves the magazine. It should travel up from the mag on either ramp, and instead gets rammed into that dead zone.

Maybe I'm off-base. But could this be more of a magazine (or magazine retention/positioning) problem?


Rich
 
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