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Sig customer service fraud?

5K views 41 replies 18 participants last post by  sig9 
#1 ·
Has anyone had fraudulent charges from Sig's sales?

I had to send in my cheap red dot that comes with the 556R for a warranty exchange because it wound not zero (couldn't be rifle; shot fine with irons). Then I realized they have a slightly better scope for $20, so i requested just paying the difference for it. They agreed and I payed the $20 over the phone and received a receipt shortly after and they told me it would ship after they received my warranty part. Then later that day, I noticed a $190 charge to my account from sig, followed later by a shipping notice with the new amount.

Come to find out they thought they would be doing me a favor by charging me in full (without my permission) and after my part showed up there they would refund me whenever they got around to it. Problem is, I don't have the extra money and they don't terribly concerned about that.

Anybody else have a problem like this with Sig? Any suggestions on what to do about? The said my refund was processed but that was two days ago, and naturally I didnt get a statement for that one.
 
#3 · (Edited)
That's not a unique business transaction, you ordered a new sight and a credit will be issued upon return of the item that is malfunctioning. If there is any fraud it could be you for ordering a new sight and having insufficient funds to cover the transaction. There are always 3 versions of an event, your recollection, their recollection and what actually occurred. Before you get upset with my response, I believe you should have called Sig and nicely ask for an explanation of this as the transaction is not as you understood it. You should not have given them a CC to use until after they received the return. They will examine it to ensure it is not abused (violation of warranty) before they automatically give you a full refund. To many people get overly upset over easily explained issues, calling it fraud is irresponsible.
 
#9 ·
Bad communication or misunderstanding is a far cry from accusing Sig of fraud. I have heard of different experiences with Sig, but never fraud. I doubt that they have done anything fraudulant.
 
#10 ·
"Consumer fraud occurs when, in the context of a business transaction, false statements of fact are made, the person making false statements knew that the statements were false when they were made, and that the other party in the transaction relied on the false statements to their detriment."
 
#13 · (Edited)
I think the CS person probably ignorantly said something he/she should not have. Could have been a new person and then didn't "fess up" to their superior when he/she found out they can't do that.
Charging for a costly item that is being shipped prior to receiving a returned item is pretty standard with any business as they cannot be sure you would truly return the other item. I am not accusing you of anything but they don't really know you. For all they know, you could claim to return the other one and then not ever send it in. Either intentionally or just simply forget to send it in.
 
#17 ·
Agree that nobody should "go back on their word".
I just think it was a mistake on Sig's part, or most likely on the part of the CS person. But I don't think it was intentional. I think someone (probably the CS person) made a mistake and someone else, either above them or actually responsible for inventory control and billing of parts, overrode them. Or maybe that person made a mistake and didn't pay attention to the "deal" made as shown in the receipt that was emailed.
 
#20 ·
If you have to pay the bill before they'll have time to refund the rest when the receive your return and you can't cover the payment at this time, call CS again, be cool with them, explain the issue and what you agreed upon and offer to forward their e-mail with the receipt you just posted here - it is import that you forward their email as an attachment in your email you send back so that they can see the header information on their e-mail and know that it came from them - and they may go ahead and credit your account like you agree to. Give it a try. I hope it works out.
 
#21 ·
I have done that and they insist I have been refunded, but they don't know how my bank works and I believe they are stalling for my return to arrive there (anyone who banks with USAA will know why I know they have not processed the return). I did not want to smear Sig or the sales guy as I believe he thought he was doing me a favor, but words have meaning I believe he what they did (intentional or not) fits the definition of fraud. I am mostly upset because had they caused me to bounce a check, I would be the one in trouble (anyone in the military can help me out on that one). Anyway I appreciate all the feedback (for or against) and just wanted to know if this was common. I have had warranty business with Sig before and been pleased, but this was my first purchase and it was a mess. Anyway thanks again.
 
#24 ·
When my Kindle died Amazon sent me a new one free of charge and said to send the dead one back in the box the new one came in. I had 30 days to send the old one back (free shipping) or they would charge me for the new one. Sent the old one back and was never charged. That is the way Sig should have handled it. That extra charge was dirty. If they didn't trust you they should have waited for the old one.
 
#25 ·
Omg, they have every right to charge you for the part. You will be credited upon receiving and processing the item.
Yes, they should have xplained that to you.
No, you should not be surprised.

If you ran the business, you would do the same. Otherwise there would be no business.

If they just sent it out for 20.00 people would be claiming to send one in all day long and getting lasers for 20.00.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk
 
#31 ·
I would call the credit card company and contest. I would state the fact that charge does not match the invoice. Stay away from claims of fraud. Most credit card comp will place a temporary hold (about 90 days) while bill is being disputed.

Bad customer service does not constitute fraud. If they just wanted your money they would have sold you the scope and not refunded your money (grounds that you damaged) then there books would have balanced and proving otherwise would be almost impossible. Most likely you got a CS having a bad day and got unsatisfactory service.
 
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#32 ·
I realize people are hung up on the fact that I am referring to bad customer service as "fraud", but if the check I wrote for my mortgage were to bounce because of Sigs "miscommunication", it would still be call....wait for it...check fraud. And if they sent it to the Police I would have no recourse.

Sig did not apply a core charge, or anything else like that. We new before hand that I would not receive anything until I mailed the old one back. They said "that will be $20 please" and then ran my card for $190.

I also said that I believe that they thought they were doing me a favor. Unfortunately they acted after the fact, without my authorization, and could potentially have really, really screwed me.
 
#33 ·
Based solely on your information Sig did you wrong but that does not mean fraud. Fraud takes several elements, mainly intentional deception to deprive you of a legal right. Bad service, poor training, miscommunication, misleading statements, or mistakes does not constitute fraud only poor business practice. Fraud would require Sig to purposely (criminal intent) deceive you with the intention to deprive you of what is legally yours. I can't speak for other members but I think most would agree that it was handled wrong just do not believe it was fraud. SIG has earned an excellent reputation (not perfect) for most members.
 
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#34 ·
Well said^. I also believe that your transaction has been handled incorrectly, Twr. And I also understand the chain of consequences that can occur and cause you serious issues. I wish that it hadn't happened, and hopefully this will get straightened out quickly and without any more incident.
 
#35 ·
Although I sympathize with the OP, I must say that I get somewhat irritated when someone jumps to claiming "fraud". Really? Do you believe that as a company Sig sat back and tried to devise a scheme to defraud you of the princely amount involved? Among the legal elements required to prove fraud, is that the defendant made a false or misleading statement with knowledge of the falsity and an intent to deceive. (And yes, i am a lawyer.) How many here really believe that is what happened? Bad CS? Sure. But fraud? Come on…
 
#36 ·
True, CS Reps from all companies make mistakes all the time (usually a single idiot does the trick of easily pissing a customer off because they aren't paying attention to the details). Just call SIG CS and dispute it with them first. If they cannot do anything for you and never told you they were going to charge you that much in the past, then you can officially begin the name calling and dispute it with your credit card company. Always get the name of your CS REP every single time you speak to them (that's for any company you speak to). This reminds me when I use to record all of my conversations. I should start doing that again...
 
#37 ·
Well Sig has made good on there refund. Although they did not do it when they said they did, i contacted my bank to dispute the charge and the alerted me that it was being processed along with the date and time it was submitted (late last night).

I also normally have had pleasant experiences with Sig customer service, but the one time it was not, it was pretty painful
 
#39 ·
that is a pretty standard practice at almost everywhere i have bought from. you can get it to ship asap and pay and get a credit back or wait for the part to come in and do the exchange and just pay the difference.

don't think its a case of fraud, that is pretty harsh.

but definately a case of bad customer service. that should be explained to you explicitly at the beginning of the transaction that those would be your two options.
 
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