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The problem with Sig Rifles

7K views 50 replies 31 participants last post by  Johnson8861 
#1 ·
Is there REALLY a problem so to speak, or is the new age of the computer and conversing with one another across the Net really the problem.
If you take into account how many different people are on these sites, and you are hearing about problems from people who live clear across the united states this is one reason people get the idea there is a problem. But take into account how many Sig rifles that are out there. If your hearing about even say 100 different people having problems that is a very small percentage. And to really add up how many different people are having problems you probably wont get a 100. It just seems like a lot on one site is all. And most are user error. And if you go to all the different manufacturers web sites they are ALL having trouble of one kind or other from the so called cheap brands to the most expensive.

And just because you read it on the web does not make it true, Now if rifles were exploding or coming apart they would have a problem. But a few FTF or FTE is very seldom the rifles fault. Even saying well its only a 2" moa gun how good does that person shoot it may well be a 2 moa user.

Just saying I think sometimes its a snow ball rolling down hill, These rifles are pretty straight forward and if something is wrong it can be fixed. There are thousands out there you never hear about. If they were all bad and being sent back the manufacture would go broke. Thanks Sig for a fine rifle.
 
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#2 ·
I have to agree with your post. I bought my 716 after reading all the horror stories on here. I already had a M400 that runs great.

So I trusted MYSELF more then the fellow posters.
The thing is with all the below zero weather we have had I have not shot it yet so I'm not in the position to sing its praises as of yet.

I do agree with you I have read scathing reviews of things, bought them and have had great experience with what ever it may be.

I know there are some that post that never held a gun let alone fired one and they have trouble. But when reading you do not know all the details of who owns it.

I live in Wisconsin but I always say I'm from Missouri (My Mother was)show me state. Another words I have to judge for myself. So I take all the rants for what they are worth.

I guess time will tell on my rifle as soon as the range is plowed out and the weather changes a bit.
 
#6 ·
Yes there is a break-in period but I don't think it should amount to using hundreds of dollars worth of ammo just to get the gun to fire as it should when "new out of the box". Most quality AR type rifles cost upwards of $1,000 for machined metal. There should be some assumption that the product will work properly when first fired. If you listened to those "idiot magazine and TV reviewers", and I use term lightly and jokingly, every gone they ever test is awesome, fantastic and works flawlessly. Then "Joe Public" goes out and buys that same weapon based on a bogus and flawed review not knowing that most of these reviewers are paid in some form or fashion to render a stellar review. I for feel duped by most of them. I will no longer buy any gun from any manufacturer including H&K, until that particular model has been out for at least 6 months.
 
#7 ·
Break in period???? I wonder how many rounds do i need to shoot to fix the shooting low problem lol. Its going back for sure!! It just bugs me that it has to go back. What kind of quality control is there? I wish i could just get my money back and move on to something better. I should have done more research on this rifle and its problems.
 
#8 ·
I feel your pain. Any one who has been shooting and buying guns for a while has probably felt the same way. Its one of the few items you buy in life and are stuck with as soon as you pay for it. Virtually no one lets you try the actual gun you are going to buy before you pay for it and as soon as its paid for its yours no matter what, even if it is totally defective and doesn't fire.

So to minimize risk do yourself a favor and research well before buying....and...don't buy no matter what until a gun has been out for at least 6 months.
 
#9 ·
I'd say there is, really, a problem.

In part, this is due to my expectations. I could've spent much less money slapping together a company X lower with a company Y upper, but I specifically chose a SIG because of their reputation for quality.

My expectation is that, properly cleaned and lubed, the rifle will experience an extremely low failure rate when shooting new 7.62 or .308 from most manufacturers. This is clearly not the case for the 716, as a quick Google search demonstrates... not to mention the problems noted here on SigTalk.

In my case, I was aware that some owners had experienced jams when their rifles were new; I meticulously cleaned the shipping grease off my new rifle and broke it in very carefully on high-quality ammo. Even then, it would jam on about 20% of the 7.62 rounds. So, fine, I decided to shoot only .308.

While I completely agree re: user error and accuracy/precision performance, it doesn't take a genius to clean this rifle and shoot the damn thing. Waaaayyyy too many FTF problems, for any rifle, much less one from Sig Sauer that came at a higher price.

After about 500 rounds or so, I started experiencing FTFs as described on this board, where (regardless of which .308 ammo used) I'd get similar 15-20% failures to chamber the new round. You could fix it by going to "adverse" gas setting, or with a mag slap and a forward assist, but that's not acceptable performance. I sent it to SIG, and they returned it with zero info on how they fixed it. As of now, with another ~200 rounds through it, all is well.

IMO, SIG decided to cash in on the gun grab by relaxing QC and swapping in new components as required to push out more rifles. I'm very happy with their customer service (although I'd like to know what they fixed), but the performance of the rifle as-purchased was simply not up to the standard that we expect from SIG.

I don't think that the internet has blown this out of proportion, and I tend to think that members of a forum such as this one are most likely legit. So even in this relatively small online community, we've got several somewhat dissatisfied 716 owners. What's good, though, is that there are definitely a bunch of trouble-free 716s out there... and that SIG steps up to the plate when a customer returns one.


Rich
 
#10 ·
I have too agree with all of you. Like I stated above I have not been able to shoot my 716 yet. So I cant say good or bad.

But what I can say is for $1800.00 this thing should run right out of the box.
No ands ifs or buts.

When I buy a guitar for 2 to 3 grand I expect it to be perfect when I pick it up out of its case.

Why should I not expect that out of a almost 2k rifle that I may need to rely on in a hunt or a life and death situation.

I also agree with the fact this industry is skewed you are buying big ticket items and really no returns.

Shure you LGS will send them in for you. Then you are at the manufactures mercy.

It makes you wonder when buying used I know I have traded lemons because I had no other choice in getting rid of them.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I expected to get the same kind of quality out of their rifles that I've come to expect out of their pistols. There is a reason I buy sigs, I enjoy the quality, style and the reliability that sigs are known for. $1800 bucks is nothing to sneeze at. I realize I can spend a lot more but the rifle should function right out of the box. They got it right with the 516 right out the gate, I see no reason why the 716 should be any exception. Its a damn shame when the guy next to you has a new DPMS that's running like a swiss watch and your experiencing 20% failure rate out of a piston operated gun.
 
#12 ·
I can't speak to the 716 directly, but know of 2 buddies with them and have had zero problems.

My own 516 is rock solid and hasn't burped once in the first 1000 rounds of various ammo both .223 and 556.

Two things to think about:
1- I can find you horror stories of EVERY AR brand built, including Noveske, LMT, LWRC, Colt etc...in about 5 minutes of searching ARFCOM and or M4carbine.net - I do believe most ALL gun manufacturers were pumping out product at a break neck pace in 2013 trying to keep up with demand and dont doubt that QC was stretched.

2- Do you realize just how many first time gun owners we've seen in the past 12 months? I'd bet more than in any other 12 month period in recent history.
 
#14 ·
I just put a couple mags through my 516 that I recently bought (despite all of the negative reviews on the web) switched up the ammo in the mags with every other one being steel and brass and 5.56 and .223. Ate everything I put through it without a single problem and was as accurate as can be. I am one happy man! :D
 
#15 ·
The OP has a point worthy of consideration. I hate to say it, however, but the number of 716's sold is probably not that large. And the complaints are significant in that light.

Given modern machining and inspection capabilities, break-in should be pretty minimal.

Quite honestly, I expect a Sig - for which a premium is paid - to work correctly out of the box.

Mine has worked fine, for which I am thankful. But it has given me pause regarding buying a second.
 
#17 ·
Don't get me wrong those who have had a problem, I fully understand why your upset for that kind of money it should run perfect. I think they were just getting them out the door. Im just saying for everyone that was flawed, There are hundreds that were not. And ALL of the manufactures are having the same problem. As long as Sig fixes the problem then your GTG. I bought a 21000.00 Harley in 06 it had every problem in the world, I paid extra for the Harley maintenance plan and extended warranty, Harley either didn't fix it, refused to admit there was a problem, or did more damage while working on it than it went in with. My buddy bought his 2 weeks before mine, He never had a single problem. After a couple years worth of stress and heartache mine runs like a top, Its faster and smoother than his. Would I buy another one, Not on your life, would I sell mine NO. If Harley had stood by their product I would stand behind them, They didn't so I wont. So far Sig has treated me very well I feel, so I will continue to support them.
 
#21 · (Edited)
I guess my take on all of this is that everyone wants perfection. One of the main reasons I purchase Sig products, is the fact they are precision weapons with precise tolerances. That being said and with varied standards in ammo,there are bound to be some issues .If you want complete reliability buy a AK. They are sloppy they rattle have gaps you can read through,But they will run anything you put in them, not because they are precisely built and finished,but the opposite. With tight tolerances in machined goods they need to be run in. The only way to avoid problems would be if the manufacturer built and controlled all aspects of its use from ammunition,magazines,accessories etc. Even Harleys have a very specific break-in procedure, of heat cycling and cool downs.If you ride it like you stole it, it will put you down,20years on a bike taught me that.
My point is if you buy a collection of moving parts that tightly mesh, or depend on consumables to function it will take a limited amount of time and patience for all the parts to find their fit and wear pattern and when they do,with proper maintenance they will run like a Swiss watch.
 
#24 ·
I agree with you, but find it interesting that from all the choices in the motorcycle universe, you picked the least engineered, least precise one there is to compare to Sig products. If anything, a Harley is more like the shoddy, stamped out AK's you mentioned. It will work, until it rattles itself to bits.
 
#22 ·
Experience and expectations... Buy a high end rifle, completely disassemble, clean and oil/lube. Use high end ammo to compliment the rifle, and run a specific amount of rounds to ensure a proper break in. just my 2 cents.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Don't be me wrong, I'll be making my first AR purchase soon, presumably an M400, but dang a statement like above sure makes me like my AKs, my third is on the way now.
 
#23 ·
I just received my new Sig 516 Patrol. I have yet to shoot the rifle but when received I completely disassembled and gave it a very good cleaning. I was amazed at the amount of lube and grime that was on and in that rifle. I had a white rag that was a foot square that turned out almost completely black. You could tell they ran number of rounds thru the rifle just from the dirt in the bore and brass ejection marks on the right side of the receiver. After the cleaning I put it back together and lubed it with some light firearm lube from Hoppes. I don't expect to have any issues as this is my third Sig automatic weapon and have done the same procedure with the previous two, they have worked flawlessly!

Nothing can replace a good cleaning and lube!

Craig
 
#25 ·
Just make sure you clean it real well before first outing. Sig puts lots of grease in my 716...by the time I was done cleaning it, I barely recognized my rag-it was inop afterward lol...
 
#27 ·
I want a good ol' American looking rifle not some Ruskie looking AK47 foreign jobber. Every time I see an AK I think of T-Head Bin Laden....the enemy. I know its a dependable weapon but don't like the look. On the other hand I good quality rifle or pistol should function well out of the box and not need much break in assuming you've cleaned and prepped it properly.
 
#28 ·
A Harley ain't about precision. A Harley is about a feeling a connection, Hell it breaks I fix it, not a dealer not a independent,I fix it,btw I don't ride a twin cam, I ride Evo, cause I like a engine with a soul, not a sewing machine at the heart of it ,I know my bike every squeak, rattle and knock ,it talks to my soul and I listen. It is true decompression therapy me and my bike and the hardtop. I screw up running down the road with nobody else around at 100 mph,I die But I do it on my terms. The feeling that you are talking your life into your own hands that it is no one else's decision or mistake involved is exhilarating at the least, ans Soul Liberation at its highest.
 
#30 ·
read this post.

This post hit many key points and i think it is a good idea to take the time out and read it. I love the Sig sauer brand. I bet my life on it. I use a P226 and a P239 as a back up every day i work. I also have a p229 40cal for extra home defense. Since day one when i pull the trigger on any of my side arms. They go bang and cycle a new round into the chamber. When my co-workers was having phase 1 and 2 malfunctions with there smith's and glocks. I would simply say to them " you should have picked a sig". I can't say that now about my 716. The history of the the reliability of these weapons is the reason why i chose sig. I needed that same reliability in a rifle. If ever S%XX were to hit the fan and i have to reach for my 716 to defend my family, my life or another. I can't say that I trust it like i trust my 226.
I paid for "To hell and back reliability" There should not be a break in period for a 716. The FTF and FTE that i was having is completely unexceptionable. I had to return my 716 to the sig twice. I have not checked it out yet at the range.

http://sigtalk.com/sig-sauer-rifles/16386-sig-716-problems-inspect-your-rifles-2.html
 
#51 ·
This post hit many key points and i think it is a good idea to take the time out and read it. I love the Sig sauer brand. I bet my life on it. I use a P226 and a P239 as a back up every day i work. I also have a p229 40cal for extra home defense. Since day one when i pull the trigger on any of my side arms. They go bang and cycle a new round into the chamber. When my co-workers was having phase 1 and 2 malfunctions with there smith's and glocks. I would simply say to them " you should have picked a sig". I can't say that now about my 716. The history of the the reliability of these weapons is the reason why i chose sig. I needed that same reliability in a rifle. If ever S%XX were to hit the fan and i have to reach for my 716 to defend my family, my life or another. I can't say that I trust it like i trust my 226.
I paid for "To hell and back reliability" There should not be a break in period for a 716. The FTF and FTE that i was having is completely unexceptionable. I had to return my 716 to the sig twice. I have not checked it out yet at the range.

http://sigtalk.com/sig-sauer-rifles/16386-sig-716-problems-inspect-your-rifles-2.html
Shoult have bought a colt.

But seriously, I have probably 100,000 rounds through Berreta, and Glocks, and haven't had a malfunction yet. I had one bad round, and one stove pipe through an M4, with probably around 1000,000 rounds fired. The stove pipe was in a firefight.
 
#31 ·
I bought a 556 when they first came out. No matter what I did the first range trip it was a single shoot rifle.

I was aggravated beyond belief.
called a buddy who calmed me down, told me that it needed some break in on bolt cycling advised me to dry fire it and run the bolt a few hundred times.

I begrudgingly ran that bolt 250x. Drove out to the range the next day, fitted my first shot, failed to chamber just like it had been. I cycled the charging handler once more and pulled the trigger.

I put over 15k rounds through it over the next two years until I encountered some financial difficulties.

Was that break in process unexpected? Damn straight. Was it annoying as hell? Yup. Was the rifle reliable? 15k rounds of everything from Lake City to Brown Bear, it sure was.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
 
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