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SIG 516 Major Issues

This is a discussion on SIG 516 Major Issues within the SIG Sauer Rifles forums, part of the SIG Sauer Forum category; I had to thread a barrel for a muzzle brake on a 516. I found out that the barrel nut was smaller than all other ...


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Old 09-08-2012, 01:25 AM   #21
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516 propriatary barrel nut.

I had to thread a barrel for a muzzle brake on a 516. I found out that the barrel nut was smaller than all other AR15 nuts.I called Sig and was told the wrench is not available. I told this man I could thread his barrel, and I was going to get it done. I measured the diameter of the nut, and made a wrench on my mill, with the digital readout . My first try was 20,5/32 hole at a diameter of 18mm. It was too big. so I jumped down to 16mm,and it was a hair tight. I used a 1/8"file, and in a few mins it fit perfect. I welded a handle to it, and it worked fine. the nut was not all that tight from the factory, and it was a regular right hand thread. I mad an extra one for the gun store I do work for. If I can help anyone out email me. Roger
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Old 09-09-2012, 09:55 AM   #22
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Thumbs up Sig 516 Problem.

Hi Zombie, When I got my Sig 516 a couple of months ago, I experienced the exact same problems. After some experimentation and reading a lot of Good (and bad) threads, it's simply a matter of using the Correct Ammo. The 516 is set up and designed for the 5.56 nato round, much hotter than the 223 Ammo. Some of the para-military 223 Ammo like the PMC and especially the Wolf/Tulla/ and others are not loaded to the 5.56 Nato specs. As a result, the lack of adequate pressure does not generate the Cyclic power needed to run the Piston in the 516. Buy some "real" 5.56 Nato Ammo and your Sig will work flawlessly. If the ammo is not advertised specifically as 5.56 Nato, then it's not what the weapon was designed for. Now, there are some ways to cheat (without hurting the 516). As you mentioned, you can run it in the Adverse Mode, but some of the standard 223 still won't work. I've found the Wolf will work about 95% of the time in Adverse setting. Ok for practice, but that's it. The 5.56 Nato is a little pricey, so I just handloaded up a couple of thousand rounds with using regular 223 RP brass with 26grs of Win 748 or H335 Powder, then run flawlessly. Other powders just don't generate enough pressure that is needed. I've also found after firing about a 1,000 rounds of the 5.56 Nato, the 516 works better and better with the Para-Military Ammo (wolf, ect), in the Adverse Mode. But Beware, using the Steel Cased Ammo (wolf, ect) can and will cause a case to get stuck in the chamber and it's a bitch to get out. If your using steel case ammo make "sure" the chamber is clean and Mix up some Brass Ammo with the Steel Case stuff. I shoot like one mag of Steel Case then one mag of Brass Case Ammo. The Brass Case stuff seems to keep the Chamber Clean from the Lacquer on the Steel Case stuff. I don't see any Damage or excessive wear in my 516 using it in the Adverse Mode. As an Aside, most AR15 gas guns will work OK with the regular 223 Ammo, but Sig's 516 Piston Gun does not, unless you run it in Adverse Mode. Hope this Helps. You will lean to love your Sig 516, I sure do. Jack
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:55 AM   #23
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Disregard, when I got home from work I looked at my 516 and it stamped just below the muzzle break

Last edited by pikebruin; 09-12-2012 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:26 AM   #24
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Bombshell!!!

***UPDATE***

Yesterday was set to be the final test before I sent the gun back to SIG. I went to my LGS to buy 62 grain ammo to see if the problem would persist operating under the normal gas setting. While I was there, the shop owner asked me why i "needed" 62 grain ammo, and what my issues were. He them asked me to bring in the 516 to have a look at it. Disassembled it, and took the recoil spring out. He said he would cut about an inch off of the recoil spring to help with cycling. If that doesn't work, it's a cheap part to replace back to factory specs. I took the rifle to the range and shot 300 rounds without issue using 55 grain ammo, and operating under the normal gas setting, a feet I was unable to successfully do in prior tests. WOW! AM I missing something here? Is this SOP for AR maintenance? Just thought I would throw that out for people who are still having trouble with there 516's.

I will call SIG to confirm that this is ok for operation.

TL;DR: My LGS cut an inch off of the recoil spring, and for the first time, the gun cycled flawlessly.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:51 AM   #25
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I would think that the spring was the length that it was to compensate for Mil-spec ammo and for fatigue. I have never had an issue with ammo, but then again, I always use LC military ammo, since I did buy a mil-spec gun instead of something non-mil.

Also the other thing that I find odd, is that everyone seems to be cleaning and lubing a semi-auto military rifle with clp. You cannot use that for a lube, you have to use grease on the moving action parts. Once you fire the rifle, with clp most of it will burn off in the first couple of shots, with grease it will tend to stick and stay where you put it. I now when we cleaned and lubed our rifles in the service, we never just put oil on the action, it would never work.

Just my .02 , but I think that if you prepared and treated a military rifle like it was designed, you would get the performance that it was designed to give.


Steve
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Old 09-13-2012, 01:41 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Spice View Post
Just purchased a SIG516 gen 2 in FDE, and I really want to love this rifle. Problem is that I have fired 300 rounds so far on two separate occasions, and with every magazine there have been issues.

Issues:

1.) Rifle will not cycle the next round
2.) Bolt does not lock back after last round
3.) FTF, FTE

Let me also add that upon receiving the rifle it was thoroughly cleaned and lubed. I checked to make sure that the normal operation setting was engaged (12 o'clock position)

Ammo:

One day I used PMC 55 grain .223, and the next day I used PMC 55 grain 5.56

Customer Service:

After telephoning Sig's CS, I was told that the rifle needed to run in adverse conditions to properly cycle 55 grain ammo. Is this the case? The manual states not to operate in adverse conditions for long periods of time. Is this a case of bad ammo? My friend purchased a Spike's Tactical ST-15 the same day, and his embarrassingly fired off every round no problems.

Any suggestions? Is this just a bad rifle that I should send back to SIG for repair? Does anyone have experience with this level of unreliability?
I am having the exact same problem with my new (June 12 production date) gen 2 black Sig 516.

Do you think I need the spring cut... ugh. I don't know where I would find a gunsmith around here who would be smart enough to do that....
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:20 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piperman View Post
I would think that the spring was the length that it was to compensate for Mil-spec ammo and for fatigue. I have never had an issue with ammo, but then again, I always use LC military ammo, since I did buy a mil-spec gun instead of something non-mil.
Good Point!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piperman View Post
Also the other thing that I find odd, is that everyone seems to be cleaning and lubing a semi-auto military rifle with clp. You cannot use that for a lube, you have to use grease on the moving action parts. Once you fire the rifle, with clp most of it will burn off in the first couple of shots, with grease it will tend to stick and stay where you put it. I now when we cleaned and lubed our rifles in the service, we never just put oil on the action, it would never work.
Never used anything other than remington gun oil on any of my guns. Remington is not very viscous so I could see how it migh evaporate after a heavy shooting session. Been lucky so far with no malfunctions but I also make sure to wet the bolt and or rails of my guns before shooting.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:51 AM   #28
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Just some notes from my testing with a Gen 2 Sig 516 that had bad short stroking problems. Maybe it'll help some folks with the same problem.

Stock with Sig's H Buffer and I assume std carbine spring
LC M855 - Adverse or Regular: Short Stroking
Winchester Frang 55gr - Adverse or Regular: Short Stroking
Federal AE 223 - Adverse or Regular: Short Stroking
Black Hills Blue Box 77Gr - Regular: OK (only 50 rounds tested)

Stock with Carbine Buffer and carbine spring
Same results as above

With VLTOR A5 Tube (rifle spring)
Federal AE with Std. A5 buffer - Adverse or Regular: Severe short stroking
Winchester Frang 55gr with Std. A5 buffer - Adverse or Regular: Severe short stroking
Federal AE with A5 4.5 buffer (-1) - Regular: Short Stroking - Adverse: Light Short Stroking. 2 out of 100 rounds
Winchester Frang 55gr- Same as above
Federal AE with 3.8 A5 buffer (-0) Regular: untested - Adverse: OK
Federal 42gr Frang with 3.8 A5 buffer: Regular: untested - Adverse: OK

We intend to test with the regular setting and 3.8 buffer soon. I'm not sure how the 3.8 buffer would impact the bolt speed or bounce using mk 262 or any heavy weight round.

We run the guns in dynamic positions in dirt, severe dust, sand and above 100 degrees so there is a higher than normal failure rate. Problems in our experience show up particularly in rollover prone especially with the ejection port facing down and low. Many times we did not see the cycling problem in standard short stroking tests but when run hard the problems would reappear.

I hope this info may help any others. As a note we've run several BCM's, LMT's and Spikes' and a SCAR 16s. None of which had any problems with the same ammo. We have not run any other piston AR. All guns running Frog Lube.

In case you're wondering I tend to not like to return things unless I see an actual broken part. Pretty stubborn, sometimes foolishly. This info is just a data point that may or may not help others. It's not meant to be a cure all or exhaustive test. It only shows what our results were in our conditions.

Last edited by LeftThumb; 09-14-2012 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:48 PM   #29
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Are we forgetting something here folks? I'm sure we all saw the marketing video where he mixes the rounds with different brands and grains and fires without any issues.... Then he dunks it in mud, sand, water, and fires without any problems. I have a 516, that brand new out of the box, had cycling issues. I was told by Sig customer service to clean the gun...what gives?
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:25 PM   #30
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I am having the same issue here and Sig service told me to clean the gun and try a new mag. Well, I did both, and still having issues. I am going to call them tomorrow and see what they say.
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Old 09-24-2012, 06:18 AM   #31
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I went to the range this weekend with my second generation SIG 516 and shot Federal 62 grain 5.56 ammo and had zero problems. I also shot about 50 rounds of American Eagle 55 grain of 2.23 as well and no issues.

So far only about 300 hundred rounds thru my rifle.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:04 PM   #32
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My experience with my 516 gen 2 is that if I use a 223 ammo, doesnt matter if steel or brass, it will eject the empty case but will not load the next one in the chamber, I have to swich the gas regulator setting to adverse to push the bcg farther back. But for a 5.56 ammo, normal setting works fine. I think maybe the action spring is too strong and needs breaking in which is why a lower pressure-223 doesnt push it farther back enough than a higher pressure 5.56. Ive only put less than 80 rounds so far, I think eventually after longer use issue will resolve itself. No complaint at all, in fact I got my sig716 fde arriving tomorrow.
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:42 AM   #33
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I've purchased my SIG516 Gen2 in June and only shot WOLF that I had left from a few years back.

If I saw this review, I think I would have skipped it and bought a PWS or LWRC instead.

I'm having the same issue as everyone else, running in "Adverse" and I'm getting FTF (Short Stroke) on almost every round. Granted I've only put about 300 rounds through it, but it's 300 rounds of frustration.

The purchase decision was made based on the "torture" test video as well. I have some XM193 55 grain that I'm saving for a raining day to try the next time I head out to the range.....

If it can shoot at least 250+ rds before FTF, I can understand due to dirty ammo. But clean and freshly lubed???

*Sigh...* such high expectations from SIG and such a let down.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:49 PM   #34
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Hi Guys....Totally new to the AR platform. Just purchased a 516....after arrival but before testfire I was reading this thread and developed a puckered keester thinking perhaps my research/decision to purchase was void.

I am not sure if my gun is gen 1 or 2. I basically pulled it out of the box and went to shoot. No lube or clean (I figured if Sig torture vid wasn't BS it would go bang) UPDATE: After some research my weapon is a Gen 2 based on the gas valve config. Also...my neighbor is awful handy with the M4 platform (although mostly DI) but gave me a crash course on breakdown and cleaning. Not sure if it is at all relevent...but he cautioned that if the gas ring ends were not offset by a fair margin, the gun will not cycle properly. This was also verified in the Sig factory produced U-tube video. Again, not sure if it is at all relevent to the cycling problems noted in this thread but thought I would mention it just the same.

I intentionally bought several diff. ammo types to test. Today I went to the range and put 300rds downrange w/out one single malfunction (edit..1 time at start of fire/round didnt chamber...checked the mag seat..and yes I had forgot to seat the mag..one slap and away we went) All functioned without having to adjust gas valve from standard 12 o'clock position.

Ammo; Winchester .223 45 gr JHP
PMC .223 55 gr. FMJ
MFS .223 55 gr. FMJ
AE .556 55 gr (I think xm193/fella at the range donated me a few rounds for test)

After a marathon of adjusting front sight elevation without the correct tool to move shot group up well over a foot. Got it zero'd. Now looking to add some optics to help my oldish eyes.

Sorry to hear those that are having trouble. As I am a novice AR'r....I wished I could help more but wanted to post this for those who are considering sending their rifles back to Sig.

I actually researched and bought my Sig because I wanted it to go bang regardless of ammo or conditions....

If I were having to choose ammo for any reason other than accuracy I guess it would be on it's way back to Sig....Just my .02.

Other than a trigger that feels a bit gritty....I am having pretty good luck....and I wish all you the best of luck in ironing out the various issues....

Regards

Last edited by Doncoyotie; 11-08-2012 at 02:26 AM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:17 AM   #35
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I've searched high and low on youTube for a video on the issue with the gas rings to no avail.

Any chance you can provide the link please?

The only thing I found related to the alignment of the gas ring was this:
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:29 AM   #36
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I don't think this is the actual video I was thinking of...but it is one of a number of 516 vids I watched to familiarize myself with the gun. (Again novice here)

At 1:20 of the below vid the Sig rep. demonstrates breakdown and cleaning of the BCG with a reference to the process as being "like any other AR15 platform".

In conjunction with my crash course from my neighbor who is very knowledgable and mentioned the gas ring placement importance, I may have assumed the same would be true for the 516. Thus, I mentioned it hoping it would be an easy test and perhaps over optimistic, simple fix for those experiencing cycling problems.

Perhaps old and cornfused...or both...but I am still thinking there is a vid that mentions the gas rings specifically. I will keep lookin.

Hope this helps...Regards


Last edited by Doncoyotie; 11-09-2012 at 05:31 AM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:13 AM   #37
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Update for Locochinoloco

Hey Loco....to satisfy my own curiosity I just called Sig and talked to one of their techs.....the rep states that the gas rings on the516 bolt are irrelevent as no gas flows through that area. According to them, the bolt is made by a company that also manufacters DI groups and supplies the bolt for the 516 also. So says Sig....sorry the news wasn't better.

Regards.......
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:28 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkybutt79 View Post
I had to thread a barrel for a muzzle brake on a 516. I found out that the barrel nut was smaller than all other AR15 nuts.I called Sig and was told the wrench is not available. I told this man I could thread his barrel, and I was going to get it done. I measured the diameter of the nut, and made a wrench on my mill, with the digital readout . My first try was 20,5/32 hole at a diameter of 18mm. It was too big. so I jumped down to 16mm,and it was a hair tight. I used a 1/8"file, and in a few mins it fit perfect. I welded a handle to it, and it worked fine. the nut was not all that tight from the factory, and it was a regular right hand thread. I mad an extra one for the gun store I do work for. If I can help anyone out email me. Roger
Tell me more about the barrel nut wrench.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:10 PM   #39
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Spice,
If this is a major issue with you, please sell the gun and go buy a moped!!! You need to solve YOUR problems instead of being a wanny!!! I have seen thousands of crybabies on the internet and I think you guys SUCK!!!
I bought a SS 516 on Friday and have shot 350 rounds through it after only cleaning the barrel of excess oil and have zero problems, at 20 degrees F. I know it sucks buying anything new and having problems. But, you should be a problem-solver instead of being a wanny. This is about manly man stuff instead of a fag website!!! No pussies needed. If you have a dishwasher problem and go out in the front yard and cry to your neighbors, they already know how big a crybaby you are. If you do this on the internet about 5 million people know how big a pussy you are. This website is about some of the best pistols and rifles on the planet. Even the mentally handicapped can solve your problem. Fast Eddie
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:58 PM   #40
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I have the 516 and have run about 300 rounds through it.First 20 were tula and would not cycle,at all,junked the rest of the three boxes and tried the Russian Brown Bear 223 55gr laquer coated,and have not had a problem with them at all.Love this gun.Shot 100 rounds at the range on sunday to zero in and loved every minute.
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