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Sig 516 with .223 55gr ammo?

30K views 57 replies 29 participants last post by  SilverIi 
#1 ·
I am a firearms instructor. I've begun to noticed some problems with federal .223 55gr ammo. Reading the posts on the 516 we've experienced similar problems posted with a few more. We've had failures to lock back on pmags, double feeds issues. More than I can count of light firing pins primer strikes. I also witnessed a striping of the round off the top of a pmag sending the round in a more than 45+ angle toward the breech. This might explain the following. One round detonated before the bolt carrier was closed causing a serious malfunction. I'm still trying to figure that one out. :mad: I still don't by it's the ammo explanation. This is a typical comment/excuse from gun manufactures make when problem with their weapons designs are identified. Also, I fired 2000+ rounds with one weapon without cleaning the rifle. Testing the 20, 0000 rounds without cleaning sales pitch. What finally happened is the bolt locking lugs jammed into the barrel extentions. Therefore the bolt could not cam to unlock to eject the fired round. This required spray with break free lubrication, unlatching the charging handle latch, then striking the handle backwards to rotate the cam.
 
#27 ·
Same ammunition here, no issues with it either.

It really is a individual rifle basis with the short stroking/ammunition issues.

Mine is a 02-21-2013 build, so its pretty new. Chamber is extremely polished to a mirror like finish. Bolt carrier group slides in the upper likes its been hand polished to an extreme, I have never felt a AR that had the BCG go as smoothly in the upper as my 516 does (and before it was even shot! its even smoother now its been shot). On top of that, the bolt lockup was very smooth as well. Its not even close to the Troy Carbine or Colt CAR-A3 Hbar Elite that I bought in the past month, they are both 'rough' in comparison and are very tight on lockup.

Serial is 501x, so I'd say any rifle after this point should be close in comparison. Its apparent that SIG knows there are short stroking issues with the rifles, and they are doing what they can on new rifles to fix it. I read somewhere on here that they were polishing feed ramps and chambers to help the issues, and that's obviously been done to mine.
 
#4 ·
I had some similar Problems with my Sig 516 with the 55gr ammo (not just Federal). I've found it is very ammo sensitive with "non" 5.56 pressure rounds with the Sig Piston system. The only way the Federal 223 works most of the time is if the Piston is set in the #2 position. There is just not enough pressure for it to function in the #1 position. The same applies when shooting the Steel Case 223 Ammo. None of it is loaded to Mil Spec Standards, and subsequently causes all kinds of unusual problems. Load up your Sig 516 with Mil Spec Ammo and it "works" in the #1 piston position. I've switched all my 223 handloads to H335 or Winchester 748 and it functions just like Mil Spec Ammo.
 
#6 ·
have run close to 1k of federal 55gr with ZERO errors. i'm sorry to hear people keep having issues. i would be very upset if i continuously wasn't performing at a rate close to perfection. i shot a buddies m400 for a while before pulling on a 516. we couldn't be happier, went to 62 gr federal and no problems there either with 250 rnds of that so far. i don't think he has had one issue either...
 
#8 ·
I've had issue with my SIG516 Gen2 shooting WOLF .223 ammo. I was extremely disappointed due to constant FTF and short stroke. It seems like the WOLF doesn't generate enough pressure to complete cycle of the BCG and therefore FTF.

This weekend I bought with me.

1. Federal Target .223 FMJ 55 grain (cheap bulk)
2. Federal American Eagle .223 Flat Based Hollow Point 50 grain
3. Remington UMC .223 FMJ 55 grain
4. Federal American Eagle XM193 5.56 55 grain

The SIG516 didn't have any issue on "Position 2/Normal" with #1 or #2. So I didn't get to try #3 or #4.

I guess WOLF just doesn't work well with the SIG516.
 
#9 ·
Here is the deal on the 516 with ammo.

I have a 516 patrol gen 2 that I just bought a month ago. I have done a lot of research about this topic since I bought the gun and have put about 1000 rds through it testing everything. Your 516 is a military spec rifle that was made to take 5.56 nato ONLY. Yes it will shoot .223 but it was made for 5.56 Nato. It wants to be fed 62gr. 5.56 not the lower powered .223 55gr. It will shoot the .223 from federal and some other brass ok with little to no issues and will have issues with any of the Russian steel case 55gr. ****. If you want to shoot cheap steel case Russian stuff, buy an ak like I did, you can plink all day at the range with that and have no issues at all. Yes some guys on here say they are shooting lots of rounds with no issue or are having to change to the #2 setting to try and let more gas through or are cutting the springs. ***, if you don't want to drive a nice car then don't buy a expensive one, and certainly don't try to put non racing fuel into a drag racer, you will just screw it up and it won't run worth a ****. You have purchased a military spec rifle with a 1:7 twist rifled barrel, it wants the good stuff and if you treat it well and feed it the 5.56 62gr. it will run like a dream like mine does. If this is offending you, sorry but truth hurts and you should have just bought a regular colt or something like it to shoot cheap ammo. I'm not saying colts are crappy guns, but they will use the cheap stuff better than a top of the line 516 will. Just offering what seems to be a no brainer opinion.
 
#57 · (Edited)
Thanks for the info! I just took my Sig 516 NIB from my FFL dealer & shot it for the first time, without cleaning, very recently with only 1 FTF using Monarch(steel case) .223 55gr ammo, using a Pmag. With the 5.56 ammo- no issues. I only shot a total of 80 rds just to see how it functions(40rds of .223 & 40rds of 5.56, all are 55gr). My 516 smokes more than my Sig 400 after just shooting it & feels hotter to the touch. This also the first time I used .233 ammo. However, I'm very new to the AR15 platform! :)
 
#10 ·
Don't give me that nice car BS

That argument is complete bullS. I paid over $1k for a high quality rifle who specifically says in the manual that it is chambered for BOTH 223 and 5.56. It also says DO NOT run the rifle in position 2 for very long. The manual specifically says that it is not good for the gun. Every 516 rifle has a manual from Sig stating that this should fire 223 and 556.

I have a new one in the box in my closet. I plan on shooting it this weekend. You can be sure that if I have any trouble I will be on the phone with Sig first thing Monday morning. As consumers we have a right to expect nothing but perfection from expensive "high quality" guns such as these. I will be on the phone every day through out the day constantly until Sig resolves my issue.

To me it sounds like a legal issue that might require the use of lawyers and law suites if Sig won't stand behind their products.
 
#11 ·
That argument is complete bullS. I paid over $1k for a high quality rifle who specifically says in the manual that it is chambered for BOTH 223 and 5.56. It also says DO NOT run the rifle in position 2 for very long. The manual specifically says that it is not good for the gun. Every 516 rifle has a manual from Sig stating that this should fire 223 and 556.

I have a new one in the box in my closet. I plan on shooting it this weekend. You can be sure that if I have any trouble I will be on the phone with Sig first thing Monday morning. As consumers we have a right to expect nothing but perfection from expensive "high quality" guns such as these. I will be on the phone every day through out the day constantly until Sig resolves my issue.

To me it sounds like a legal issue that might require the use of lawyers and law suites if Sig won't stand behind their products.
If you already think you might have issues, sell that NIB gun box right now for 2.5X what you paid for it. May never be a better seller's market and you won't have to hire a lawyer.

Personally, my modest (but maligned in some circles) Bushmaster is eating up the Federal, Lake City, WWB and even Wolf. Obviously, you have to adjust for point of impact a bit if you are switching bullet weights and looking for good groups, but no biggy there. Been using mags from Bushmaster, Rock River and Colt. No sweat. Approaching 2,000 rounds, only about 4 failures to feed to date. None hard to resolve.
 
#12 ·
actually jrk2262 your 516 manual says on page 16 under 1.2 ammunition "Use only ammunition of the caliber for which your firearm chambered. The proper caliber is permanently engraved on your firearm; never attempt to use any other caliber." Mine is engraved 5.56 on the barrel so if your is different it must be a fake and you should get your money back from where you bought it. It does say that you CAN use .223 in the faq on the website but as far as the manual goes you are incorrect. Mine is also a gen 2 that is only 1 month old so maybe your is a gen 3 that just came out.
 
#14 ·
Called Sig

Okay, you probably don't care but I tell you anyway.

Mine is Gen2 as well. It is chambered for 5.56 although it says on page 21 (2.1.1) that is is compatible with 223 Remington.

I called Sig and spoke with a Andrew...or Andy, one of the two and he said the 516 should fire 223 just fine and it does not in any way void the warranty. I asked him if they recommend only firing 62gr ammo and he said no 55gr should work just fine.

Hopefully I will get to shot mine Sunday afternoon or next Saturday and ill let you know what happens. I have all brand new mags and all I have right now is 55gr 223.

We'll see.
 
#15 ·
actually I do care

Actually I do care, I'm glad you called and such but I was just being a little sarcastic because of the whole lawyer lawsuit thing and quoting the manual. Of course an AR chambered in 5.56 will run .223 in 55gr., everyone knows that, I just posted my comments in reply to the upper comments where people were complaining about not being able to run cheap steel ammo with no issues. I run some federal .223 through mine at the range to save my good 62gr. "green tip steel core" ammo for more important things that might arise. The cheap stuff like tula and wpa and wolf and such is **** except for the 7.62x39 caliber. I have put about 4000 rds of tula through my AK and it works awesome, I have never had any issues at all with it, but AK's are made to eat just about anything. The main point being, we all spent more money on a very nice top of the line AR and should not be surprised if it has some issues with ammo that is notoriously under powered in 55gr because the QC on that stuff is terrible and the price reflects it, and that's not a BS argument, that's all. Enjoy your new 516 and I hope it works well for you at the range this weekend.
 
#16 ·
Newbie here with brand new 516

Ok, I just picked up a sig 516...and I love it! Other than the jamming on independence 556 55grain fmj's. This is my first AR and I love the look, feel, and accuracy of this gun. I would be 100% satisfied if this gun doesn't jam on every other round on the independence ammo. I shot some federal 223 55grain fmj's without any problems! It just doesn't like the independence 556 for some reason. Have any one here experienced something like this?
For it to cycle through to the next shell on the 556 ammo I had to set the gas valve position to adverse. But it will shoot fine on normal gas valve with the 223 ammo. Granted right now I would like to try other 556 ammos but just can't get any.
I called sig customer service and they claim that since I've only put around 100 rounds through, it really needs to break in first. Any pointers from the experts here?
 
#17 ·
Yea, keep it wet and shoot anything you got. We have 3 here that have had 0 problem's. I've never changed the gas setting off normal. Newest was built on 1/23/13 Oldest on 8/28/12 there all perfect as long as there kept wet. Let the BCG dry up and you'll have problems. 716's run perfect also. :rolleyes:
 
#18 ·
I have a 516 and I feed it 55gr 5.56 ammo along with other gr. weights.

No problems. Worked perfectly. Like poetry in motion.

I pay more for quality 5.56 ammo, and I will not feed it .223

When I read the complaints on this site, I find that most not only feed their 516 with .223 ... it's cheap and garbage ammo.

If you have a world class quality firearm, don't feed it junk yard ammo. Makes sence, right?



SC ~
 
#21 ·
PMC is not that good but right now I have all I can shoot so its great.. Keep the BCG slick and there will be no problem's. I've been doing this for a long long long time. I'm also a retired Instructor if that counts for anything, but all I know is all of our M400's and 516s and 716s work great the way we set them up. Plenty of Break Free LP. So simple it's funny. I'll have to go pull one out of the box and lightly clean it like the Instructions say and try that to see what happens. But I can guess listening to all the complaints.
 
#55 ·
#23 ·
Thx for the replies

Yes mine is lubed all the time. Makes sense with the quality ammo, except right now beggars can't be choosy. The only 556 ammo my shooting range have in stock right now it's the independence. Believe me I would feed it more expensive ammo if I can get my hands on it. So I guess I'll keep shooting on the adverse setting until ~500 rounds, then hopefully it won't jam anymore after break in period. I'm keeping my fingers crossed...
 
#24 ·
I also had some FTF issues shooting the 5.56 independence ammo on the normal setting, my bolt would not stay back either when the mag was empty.... Changed over to adverse setting and it worked like a boss. I cleaned it real good and lubed it up, same issues with normal setting but from what I am reading I believe it is just a break in process. I hear the spring is stiff and needs breaking in, I read that someone cut an inch off theirs and it cycled everything like a champ. I figure just keep it wet with decent ammo and break that beast in.
 
#25 ·
I hope so tbird

Man I'm thought I was the only one here with a new sig that's not shootings the 556 ammo. Every post I've read people with trouble are with the 223, none with the ammo that the gun was intended. So far I've cleaned the gun twice and shot it twice for a total of just shy of 100 rounds.
It's just discouraging that every independence 556 round jams on this gun. During normal setting The first manual cycle shoots fine, but every auto cycle the gun puts a dent near the top of the next shell when trying to cycle it. But in adverse setting, it shoot fine. What's strange is that it'll eat 223's fine in either setting.
 
#28 ·
My gun had 0 rounds through it and the BCG was smoother than my CMMG Mod4 SA that I had put over 1,000 rounds through it. My 516 is as smooth as the CMMG was with the Young National Match bolt carrier group that I put in there and put 400 rounds on it.

I've got 170rds on my 516 now and its even smoother than it was before I shot it. The rifle should run without issue from the get go, you shouldn't have to 'break it in' in order for it to function properly.

I shot 55gr .223 ammunition through my rifle and it worked all the same as the Lake City 55gr and 62gr 5.56 ammunition. If it doesn't work with the ammunition on the normal setting, the rifle needs to go back to SIG and have the issues addressed. Telling the customer to run the rifle on adverse mode or that it NEEDS to run 62gr 5.56 ammunition is a load of ****.

Apparently not all rifles leaving SIG are of the same quality as others.... I found a gem amongst turds from what I'm reading on here. That, or there are far more happy 516 owners that just don't get onto the internet and post their positive experiences with it. When you have a negative experience with something, you are far more inclined to let everyone know about it though.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Greetings,

New member here.

GanderMountain had the 516 in stock, briefly. Assumed I paid too much for the convenience of one click shopping, but then I see what they are going for in auctions and realize, I did ok for the current market. Should be here in a week and obviously I will have to shoot whatever I can find out of it for now.

I had a question about the keeping the BCG wet comment. (my first AR) Should I lube it up before going to the range the first time ? I have a few pistols and always notice the "don't over lubricrate" warnings, and what seemed to be plenty of lube from the factory. So I should assume we are talking about a light coat of oil on the BCG or make it "wet" ? I got tired of the toxic cleaners real quick, Is M-Pro 7 LPX a good choice for my 516 BCG ??

Hoping for a long term trouble free relationship with my 516. Cheers.
 
#30 ·
What did you pay for yours? I 'overpaid' on mine at $1560 before tax.

Clean out all the factory **** thats in there, and yes you will want to have some lubrication in there when you shoot it. M-pro 7 is a good one to use since it doesn't get burned off being a piston gun, thats actually what I had on mine before I just picked up frog lube to put in there.

Don't coat the entire BCG, you don't need to do that on ANY AR even DI. Just lightly coat the CONTACT points. Lube it up, and put it into the upper and cycle it back and fourth several times. Take it out, wipe it dry and then put a little oil onto your finger and wipe your finger along the contact points on the carrier. That is all the lube you will need for the 516, it will be good to go.


Make sure you pull the BCG completely apart and wipe it down good with a rag, get all the **** out of there. I got mine completely clean and after I shot it, it had a bunch of factory lube 'melting' out of the BCG that needed wiped off again.


Something you will love about the 516, is how clean it runs. Firing 170 rounds of ammunition through my 516 it had less fouling inside the upper than any of my DI guns have after shooting ONE (yes, 1) round. The piston really wasn't that dirty either.




Post up what your build date is on your rifle, and let us know if your BCG slides in the upper likes its been polished a lot. Interested to know if SIG finally decided to make sure the short stroking issue has been resolved.
 
#33 ·
Your's is 10 day's newer than my newest one 1/21/13 and none of the 4 in the house have any problems what so ever. There is alot of 516s at the NRA Range in fairfax where we shoot and I've never seen any Issue's with a single one. We shoot anything we can get 556 / 223.
 
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