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Sig 716 Failure To Feed/ Failure To Extract

59K views 292 replies 64 participants last post by  xrlizard 
#1 ·
I purchased a 716 first of November. This is my first AR style rifle. I'm still very new to the AR community. So forgive me if my terminology isn't exactly accurate. I've been searching forums for someone experiencing the same issue as mine, but I have been unsuccessful thus far.
During my first 20 rounds, I noticed after firing that another round would chamber but when I fired the "chambered" round, it wouldn't actually fire. Upon further investigation, I noticed that the bolt wasn't completely seated. So the firing pin wasn't making contact. I attempted the forward assist but was unsuccessful. I attempted to extract the round, but was still unsuccessful. It took excessive force to extract the round once it gets stuck.
This problem doesn't occur every time. But it doesn't occur at regular intervals though. I've got 60 rounds through it and it occurs at least every 4 rounds. I have various ammo brands in 308 and 7.62, and it doesn't seem to make a difference.
So I sent the gun to Sig for repair. I spoke with them last week an Andy said they "polished the feed ramp and test fired without malfunction." I'm no expert but I'm not convinced by that explanation that my gun is repaired.
Has anymore experienced this problem?
Would this be an issue that a "polish" would potentially resolve?
 
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#107 ·
Update: 18 May 2013.
Soaking the Gas Valve (Pg. 68) in a full 5oz bottle of Hoppe's No 9 for fifteen minutes does a good job of breaking down the carbon residue inside the valve. Next, using a .40 cal. brass brush with a cleaning patch wrapped around it will remove the carbon inside the valve. This may take several patches until clean. Final spray clean the inside using your favorite spray cleaner and allow to dry. Inspect the mating/machined surfaces of Pushrod where it fits into the gas valve, for light (break-in) scratches. Using Scotch Brite or 600 grit paper, polish-out the scratches and the carbon on the end of the Pushrod and clean with solvent and dry. I applied a small amount of the Sig grease on a clean finger and coated the machined surfaces of the Pushrod. Returned to the range and fired 168 Grain Federal Gold Match and Federal (White Box) 149 Grain 7.62 X 51mm XM80C. Not one function problem! Yes, the trigger is not the smoothest, but I learned in the Marine Corp to adapt to the situation and deal with the trigger issues. I will not purchase an after-market trigger. The 149 grain was not too accurate, but I was more concerned about the functioning of the weapon. Using an Atlas BT10-LW17 Bipod at 100 yards, factory iron sights, I held pretty good groups with the Federal 168. I am convinced this weapon is reliable. I estimate, after the first thirty-rounds the weapon was ready for combat. As I stated previously, the buffer assembly was caked-up with grease and oil, and I am convinced if I would have inspected and cleaned the buffer assembly and components prior to firing the first trip to the range, there would not have been any malfunctions. I have seven Sig-Sauer weapons including my first new P220 I purchased in 1983. I have faith in Sig-Sauer weapons, but I admit I was concerned about this 716 on my first day of test firing. Maybe the folks at Sig should consider providing a more intense detailed pre-operational inspection and cleaning procedure so as new owners of this weapon will not be discouraged on their first day at the range. This is the first time ever that I have provided comments to a forum, and maybe a few of my suggestions can help new 716 owners.

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#108 ·
Remember, only a small amount of wet carbon blocking the hole in the Gas Valve Body (Pg. 82) and the barrel will cause binding of the Pushrod and of course, when the Pushrod "drags", cycling action decreases. Excessive oil, grease, and/or a piece of lint can block the gas port holes. I have never had to rotate the Gas Valve Body to help the weapon function. I keep it on the normal index. It only takes ten minutes to remove and clean the Gas Valve Body and Pushrod at the range. Dirty powder and restricted gas port holes will ruin your day. The gas system is the first place to inspect when you have a cycling problem.
 
#110 ·
I think the dinged necks are due to the addition of that spring loaded button thing (I don't know what it's called). If you look in the chamber at about the 2 O'clock position behind the locking lugs you'll see what I'm talking about.

Failure to feed, I have read several times that when rifles are returned to Sig they polish the feed ramps to solve it. The reports are nearly 100% consistent that the FTF issues are resolved by doing that.

Of all the weapons I've had the FTE issue has been traced back to tolerance stacking in the AR platforms; chambers with tight tolerances & then ammunition with a coating (I.E. Russian steel cased) being used. In other platforms it's always been fouling or debris.
 
#111 ·
I think the dinged necks are due to the addition of that spring loaded button thing (I don't know what it's called). If you look in the chamber at about the 2 O'clock position behind the locking lugs you'll see what I'm talking about.
Which one? The one on the bolt face?

A crappy mobile phone pic is in order :D
 
#114 ·
My mistake, I was confused. Are you sure its spring loaded? If it is its extremely stiff and I don't understand why. It appears to just line up over the extractor when the bolt is in battery. Why do you think this is causing the dinged necks?
 
#115 ·
Actually No; I'm not positive it's spring loaded. I just put my 716 back together or I'd use a punch to press it in, I have a picture on the way, photobucket is taking it's time editing the contrast etc.
 
#116 ·
It took me forever because my PC hates my phone & then I had to edit the image to make the "button" stand out & be easier to see blah-blah-blah....the red arrow is pointing to it -





Like I said, it's just a guess. It might be responsible for the scratches or the dings & then again it might not have dik-diddly to do with any of it lol
 
#117 ·
I don't have any "buttons" there, instead I have holes...

Let me try to get a picture.
 
#118 ·
Here you go.

 

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#119 ·
I don't even want to say this because it's liable to be taken as condescending or smarmy but you're looking exactly opposite of where I said.

Open your rifle, remove the BCG & charging handle & look down toward the chamber at the 2 O'Clock position....you took your pic through the ejection port at the 7 O'Clock position....mine has a little hole there too; but it has the "button" opposite the hole.

I do not know what to call it other than the "button" but it protrudes, it's not a hole like the other side.

 
#120 ·
Ok. I'll get some pics after work...
 
#121 ·
You're right, it's there!...

 

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#122 ·
*Ta-Daaaahhh* lol

Now what is it called? What's it's job?
 
#123 ·
"The Bullet Button!"
 
#124 ·
How about the Ding Dongle?:lol:
 
#125 ·
I'd really like to know what it's called & what it's specific function is. I took my 716 out again & the brass looked better but some were flattened here & there on the neck; the way it throws brass it could have happened hitting the concrete though. lol
 
#126 ·
I'm not sure.

Sent you a PM on my best guess, but I really am a novice shooter...

The information I have is quite limited.
 
#127 ·
Yeah I got it; I can't recall if I responded or even what the message said :huh:....got a lot on my plate atm so I'm sorry if I left ya' hangin' on some point of other.

My question wasn't directed at you specifically Edsel but to the community, I'm wondering (still) if anyone knows what it is called & what it's function is.

Anyone? Anyone? :lol:
 
#128 ·
Does this help?

Tokarev said:
> If you look inside the barrel extension at about the 2:00 position you'll see a small button in there. This button rests against the extractor when the bolt is locked into battery and keeps the extractor in contact with the case's extractor groove.

As far as I know, only HK and SIG are using this in their rifles but it seems like a good idea and a simple fix to "extractor bounce." I guess on the other side of the coin, if it did anything to really enhance the M16's reliability other makers would be using it...

 

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#129 · (Edited)
I had read that before but couldn't remember where I saw it....here or somewhere else & searching didn't turn it up again. I guess I could PM tokarev & see what more they know about it, if anything.

E.T.A. - M4carbine.net correct?
 
#130 ·
The little arrow before the quote should be linked to the original (external) post.
 
#131 ·
Ah-HAaaaa, thank you. I didn't know that.
 
#132 ·
Ok guys. I decided to try one last thing via my Dads recommendation.

I wiped off the RemOil and used a grease made by ProShot.

I took the 716 apart, broke down the bolt assembly and wiped a thin layer of that grease every spot that could get any friction. I also greased the bearing surfaces in the upper receiver and feed ramp.

I then put a full 20rds TulAmmo 308 in the PMAG and fired it; 60rds later and not a single FTF/FTE!

I then moved to the Federal Lake City M80 7.62x51 and fired 60 more rounds without issue.

So for those having issues, you might want to try this.

I still feel the gun should function without having to be greased up like this, but if it continues to function I'm not going to send it to Sig for warranty.






Sent from my iPhone
 
#133 ·
Ok guys. I decided to try one last thing via my Dads recommendation.

I wiped off the RemOil and used a grease made by ProShot.
While I don't suspect that SIG's parts are hewn rougher, this does support the idea that tolerances are much tighter - and that oil doesn't cut it as a lubricating surface.

In the previous posts, you can probably see how greasy the insides of my rifles are.





I'm not exaggerating when I say that I've had NO failure to feed / eject issues since day one with cheapo ammunition.



I do expect to go down on the lubrication in the future, probably when the rifle's gone through a thousand or so rounds.
 

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#138 · (Edited)
I "think" I'm glad to hear others are having issues that are fairly easily remedied. I have a gen 2 sig 516 that has been flawless since I got it about a year ago. I just bought a sig 716, because I love the ergo's on the AR type system. Also because a piston system seems like a better mouse trap than a DI gun, though I've never had issues that many have experianced with them.

I had a couple of clicks when I tried to shoot my 716 yesterday. Did not seem to go all the way into battery, when round was chambered. Used the botl pusher button; still the click, no bang. Cleaned all the grease off and just tested a mag full of mil ball ammo, so I could sleep that night, without fretting about this IMO high end/dollar gun. After cleaning, the 1 full mag did fine.

IMO, reliability is more important than anything else. Of coarse accuracy is good too, but if it don't go bang when a round is in the chamber, nothing else matters.

The AR piston system is still fairly new, but I was not expecting a sig that didn't function right, straight from the box. I've owned several sig pistols and all have been 100% reliable right out of the box.

Apples to oranges, but I've always liked high end AK's because of reliability. They too are a long piston type gun. I've also got a PTR 91 that cost almost half as much as the sig, and it runs like a singer sewing machine, is super accurate, and mags are dirt cheap, and EASY to get.

At about 1$ per shot, testing a new 7.62 NATO, with several hundred rounds, especially if breaking it in does not fix the problem. I'm hopefull it is just that the gun is TIGHT, and needed degreasing and oiling. Still not sure why sig would not have this done at the factory, so the gun is good to go when customer gets it. I'm not slamming on sig, because I'm a long time sig fan.

Anybody know where to get 7.62 P mags?
 
#139 ·
The 7.62 mags are scarce online and still over priced. I've had better luck lately finding mags in stock at local gun shops. The smaller and less known the gun shop, the better your odds are for finding mags and ammo from my experience lately.
 
#140 ·
They're in stock at Brownell's.

There're a LOT of Gen 3 PMAG 30s showing up all over the web, now.
 
#142 ·
Not pulling your leg.

I swear I saw PMAGs in 7.62mm at Brownell's yesterday going for something like under $20 apiece, and was telling myself that the insanity was finally over...
 
#144 ·
Strange, but my local dealer says, he has sold probably 100 or more 716'since they came out, and nobody ever brought 1 back. Normaly I wouldn't put much stock in what a gun store guy says, but I've known this guy all my life, and if the guns were problematic, he would have steered me to another gun.

Has anybody here got 1 that was good to go from the box? As I stated earlier, my 516 was 100%, with just a light cleaning, before use.

I'm new here, but if somebody from Sig could chime in, I'd be all eyes/ears. For me this is a big investment, and something I have wanted since they came out.
 
#145 · (Edited)
I don't bring guns back to the gun shop for warranty issues. My LGS are all sales final. If you have a problem with a gun, it goes back to the factory for service.

That said,

They're probably like the rest of us and try to resolve the problem ourselves and don't complain to anyone (except forums lol)

So far, Pro-Shot Pro-Gold works and I will use that before I UPS my gun in for service because I just don't want the risk of damage or loss in shipment.
 
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