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SIG716 Patrol teardown (lotsa pix and info)

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Old 01-18-2013, 08:24 PM   #1
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SIG716 Patrol teardown (lotsa pix and info)

NOTE: if you're reading this sentence, I'm still working on it. I'll delete this note once it's all done. Lots of stuff to sort out so please pardon the mess.
==================================
INTRO: This is the Sig Sauer SIG716(TM) Patrol rifle teardown. I'm always learning so if you have a correction or suggestion on how to do something better, please share so everyone could benefit.

This is what I learned from speaking to various people, including my dealer and Sig representatives. Some of the techniques I use may or may not be ideal or even correct. Please provide your comments where relevant.

Manufacturer's link: SIG716 Patrol

Manufacturer's link to all available owner's manuals: SIG SAUER

Direct hotlink to SIG716(TM) manual: http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/CmsC...58REV01_LR.pdf

Picture taken by my dealer, recently deceased Jaymie ("gabby") of the now defunct Afton Arms company, RIP:


========================
SAFETY:

Before handling firearms, I always remove the magazine and clear any round that may be chambered. You can clearly see the gun lock indicating a safe state.


=========================
INVENTORY LIST

This is everything my dealer gave me. He traveled over 100 miles to bring me this so some of the packaging was thrown out to reduce his load. Understandable.



He was kind enough to provide me with a 40" soft case.

Going from left to right you see the item tag, Sig owner's manual, 2 allen hex keys, Ergo Grips, the rifle itself, Mappul MIAD grip and components (optional front strap, 5.56/.223 3 round holder insert for grip which I removed because it's useless for the 7.62x51/.308, normally it's mounted inside the grip, 2 optional rear strap inserts, a rollpin to lock in the rear strap if you so choose), Magpul ACS butt stock with ambidextrous sling mount and 2 5.56 dummy rounds, Magpul PMAG, and 2-point sling.

Link for the Magpul products that come standard with the rifle:

http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG243/PMAG
http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG050/39
http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG370/87

My rifle also comes with the optional AAC Blackout: http://advanced-armament.com/BLACKOU...2mm_p_450.html

For posterity, a comparison with the .308 round with the dummy 5.56 rounds.


Another view of the right side:



First impression is that the rifle has some heft. Those who are used to the lighter 5.56 rifles will find the SIG716 noticeably heavier. I really feel for folks who have to lug the SAWS around.

It's not unmanageable though. The gun just feels very tight and hefty but very wieldy running around.

On my extremely accurate bathroom scale:


It shows approximately 10.5 pounds empty. Pretty close to Sig specs.


Left side showing the slide release, ambidextrous mag release, familiar thumb safety, and rear sling mount.



Right side showing the dust cover, ambidextrous mag release, rear sling mount, and trigger guard removal. Push the detent spring and the trigger guard should swing out for gloved operation.



Horrible pix but it shows the gas valve, bayonet mount, and front sling mount.



Same view from left side showing front sling mount and better view of bayonet mount.



The front sight is the "A2" style with four indents.



I was quite disappointed that Sig does not include a front sight tool. I procured one fom the local gun shop.




This guy takes way better pictures than I do. Please pardon the external link. He also does do a fairly good job of reviewing all the features as well: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...-patrol-rifle/
========================================

Now that the formality is over, I'll get right to the point. The owner's manual was written before the design was finalised for production. A Sig representative confirmed this with me: http://www.sigsauer.com/CustomerService/

These are the differences I noticed:

1. The parts diagram shows a firing pin spring; however, the actual rifle does not have a firing pin spring. I saw a couple of other users with the same situation. The Sig rep confirmed with me that the firing pin spring was eliminated from the final design because the engineer felt it added no benefit.

2. The manual states that you should be able to freely turn the gas valve from position #1 Normal to position #2 Adverse; however, the actual rifle requires depressing the detent pin to make any change to the gas valve position. The Sig rep confirmed with me that the gas valve design was changed at the last minute to require pushing the detent pin to make any change to the gas valve position. This change was unfortunately not updated in the manual.

I'll cover these changes in more details below.

I also saw some concern about removing the quad rail for cleaning. The Sig rep's suggestion is that under "normal" use, removing the quad rail is not required for cleaning; however, it is recommended that once every 5-6 cleaning should involve removing the quad rail for cleaning and inspection.

Of course if your rifle is operated in extremely dirty conditions, then you should remove the quad rail for cleaning and inspection.

I'm not going to cover removing the quad rail this time. Maybe in a future update I will.


For the most part the manual does a very good job of explaining all the various features. I'll try to supplement the owner's manual with information that I think is helpful in the order presented in the manual.
============================
BUTT STOCK

To remove the buttstock, the manual instructs to fully extend the butt stock. While holding the adjustment lever, insert the dummy round into a pinhole and extend the locking pin release towards the bottom of the rifle.



I found that the spring is too stiff and was bending the tips of the dummy rounds. So instead I used a small screwdriver to carefully pry on the locking pin.



Then carefully pull back on the butt stock while prying the locking pin towards the bottom of the gun. The butt stock should come out.





There's some confusion between Mil Spec and Commercial Spec on the SIG716. So I brought the rifle to an authorised Magpul dealer and he confirmed that the SIG716 accept Mil Spec butt stocks.

Please note that the Magpul CTR butt stock was installed for illustrative purposes only to demonstrate the size. It's up to the end user to keep the factory butt stock or to select another one.


=======================================
FIELD STRIP

After racking the bolt and let it lock forward, put the safety on SAFE. The manual suggests using the dummy round to push out the take downs, but I found it very easy to push/pull using just my fingers. Push the take down pins from left to right of the rifle.



The very first thing I noticed is that the rear takedown pin has a tensioning plunger. Perhaps that's why the gun feels so tight and not loose.


Last edited by Nobody123; 01-19-2013 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:48 PM   #2
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To remove the grip cover, pull up on the clip here:



Inside you will find a flathead bolt holding the grip onto the lower receiver. Remove this bolt very carefully, taking care not to strip the head.



Once the bolt is out, slide the grip down. Be very careful as there is a spring mounted on the grip. Don't lose or damage this spring.



The spring in the grip holds up the safety detent. It's very small so carefully tilt the receiver down and the safety detent will fall out. Be careful not to lose it. Make sure you know how it goes in. The pointed part goes towards the safety and the flat part goes towards the spring in the grip.



The safety/fire control selector should slide out easily. Don't lose these small parts.



Top view of the lower:



And bottom view of the lower:



I find this part the most frustrating part of the entire process. I know experienced guys just yank out the action spring, but I take my time here so I don't bind up the spring and bend/damage anything.

To remove the buffer and action spring assembly, depress the buffer retaining plunger while pushing the buffer slightly.



Continue to depress the buffer retaining plunger and pull the assembly out more.



This part took me a few minutes because I was very careful not to damage the spring.



When the assembly is finally out, turn the buffer clockwise into the spring while pulling them away from each other.



When the buffer is loose, I inspected the action spring and it looks symmetrical, but in the spirits of Sig with asymmetrical springs, I labeled the end of the spring going over the buffer with a zip tie.



I also took the opportunity to size out the grip bolt/screw for FYI purposes. What you do with the info is up to you. It is a standard 1/4-28 thread pitch just like any AR-15/10.



The bolt/screw is 3/4" long.



Installation of all components on the lower receiver is the reverse of removal. I also spend a lot of time inserting the action spring to make sure it doesn't get bent/damaged.

Last edited by Nobody123; 01-19-2013 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:13 PM   #3
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For the upper receiver, place it upside down with the bolt carrier facing up.



Pull the charging handle back and remove the bolt carrier. Make sure you note the orientation of the bolt carrier. There's a video on youtube of a guy putting the bolt carrier in backward.



Once the bolt carrier is completely out, it's hard to see but there are semi-circle cutouts in the upper receiver and slightly smaller semi-circles on the charging handle. Pull the charging handle back and line up the circles. Then lift the charging handle up and out.



Here you can clearly see the ears on the charging handle.



Now to the gas valve. Push in the detent and rotate the gas valve clockwise until it clears the detent and pull the gas valve out.



Pull the gas valve out with the pushrod.



Notice that the spring guide has a flat section. This section should point towards the bottom of the rifle.



All components removed:




It's 2:30AM. To be continued...

Last edited by Nobody123; 01-18-2013 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:36 AM   #4
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The lack of a firing pin spring I was aware of and knew it didn't matter. I didn't know about the change to the gas valve in that you now needed to press the detent to make any change. I'm able to go between #1 and #2 without pressing the detent and I'm glad mine does operate that way. Its tight enough that theres no way its going to get accidentally moved. And yes, that flat wound buffer spring isn't as easy to remove as a regular buffer spring. Just takes a little more care.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:04 AM   #5
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I think we share a similar degree of obsessive - compulsiveness in things.

Subscribed to this thread, nice pictures...
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:55 AM   #6
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"5.56/.223 3 round holder insert for grip which I removed because it's useless for the 7.62x51/.308"

Actually, it's not useless. If you lived in Kommiefornikstan, as some of us 716 owners do, we have what's called a Bullet Button (modified magazine release button) on our rifles which locks the magazine in the magazine well to comply with Kommiefornikstan's AWB laws which prohibit a removeable magazine. The magazine can only be removed by inserting a tool into the recess of the Bullet Button. The dummy .223 rounds come in very handy for this purpose and I keep them stored inside the grip holder insert so they don't get lost. I know they can also be kept inside the little compartment in the butt stock but they rattle around in there making a racket.

Changing the butt stock to the CTR may be a mistake. While it may be more convenient because of it's ease of removal, the weight of the ACS stock, even if only a few ounces more, adds a little more balance to an already nose-heavy rifle.

You need to be careful replacing any bolts on your rifle. You have to remember that the receiver is made out of aluminum and the threads will strip easily if care is not taken to insure proper thread size. I'm not sure, but the pan head screw supplied with the MIAD Grip Kit may be made of aluminum and replacing it with a steel hex head bolt may also damage the threads.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy View Post
I didn't know about the change to the gas valve in that you now needed to press the detent to make any change.
You don't. Position #1 and #2 does not require that you push the detent. It is only required when going from #2 to #3 and #4. It's also required of course, when removing the gas valve and pushrod.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy View Post
The lack of a firing pin spring I was aware of and knew it didn't matter.
Confirmed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy View Post
I didn't know about the change to the gas valve in that you now needed to press the detent to make any change. I'm able to go between #1 and #2 without pressing the detent and I'm glad mine does operate that way. Its tight enough that theres no way its going to get accidentally moved.
I believe you have an early production model. The Sig rep confirmed with me that all 716 now require pushing the detent to switch between #1 and #2. The owner's manual was not changed to reflect this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy View Post
And yes, that flat wound buffer spring isn't as easy to remove as a regular buffer spring. Just takes a little more care.
Confirmed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edsel View Post
I think we share a similar degree of obsessive - compulsiveness in things.
I'm not crazy. I just want to do it correctly. I swear I'm not crazy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edsel View Post
Subscribed to this thread, nice pictures...
Thank you. That's only 1/3 of the pix I have. More to come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShot716 View Post
"5.56/.223 3 round holder insert for grip which I removed because it's useless for the 7.62x51/.308"

Actually, it's not useless. If you lived in Kommiefornikstan, as some of us 716 owners do, we have what's called a Bullet Button (modified magazine release button) on our rifles which locks the magazine in the magazine well to comply with Kommiefornikstan's AWB laws which prohibit a removeable magazine. The magazine can only be removed by inserting a tool into the recess of the Bullet Button. The dummy .223 rounds come in very handy for this purpose and I keep them stored inside the grip holder insert so they don't get lost. I know they can also be kept inside the little compartment in the butt stock but they rattle around in there making a racket.
You are absolutely correct. I have a non-CA model so there is no Bullet Button.

As stated above, when I used the dummy rounds to remove the butt stock like the manual instructed, the spring was so stiff that I dented the tips of the dummy rounds. I don't know how useful they would be now with the flat tips.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShot716 View Post
Changing the butt stock to the CTR may be a mistake. While it may be more convenient because of it's ease of removal, the weight of the ACS stock, even if only a few ounces more, adds a little more balance to an already nose-heavy rifle.
Asbolutely should be a consideration by the user. I have my reasons, and I don't want to get into it right now. This is what I prefer and I wanted to show the size for those who are trying to order another stock and don't have access to a dealer to test-fit.

The rifle is somewhat nose-heavy, but it's easy to handle after some time.

Those concerned with balance can look into the UBR:

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://store.magpul.com/prod_detail_list/86
The UBR also provides extra counterbalance weight to improve handling on full-length rifles and weapons with muzzle-heavy accessories or bull-barrels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShot716 View Post
You need to be careful replacing any bolts on your rifle. You have to remember that the receiver is made out of aluminum and the threads will strip easily if care is not taken to insure proper thread size. I'm not sure, but the pan head screw supplied with the MIAD Grip Kit may be made of aluminum and replacing it with a steel hex head bolt may also damage the threads.
Absolutely, although the lower receiver is somewhat magnetic, which makes me think it's some sort of aluminium alloy. I will check with the Sig rep again.

I will confirm the thread size again.

The bolt that came with the rifle is aluminium. So for consistency it should be replaced with an aluminium hex head bolt. I just used a steel bolt because that's what I had available. I will order an aluminium bolt today.

Using a steel bolt in aluminium threads (or at least aluminium alloy threads) can crack the threads.

Thank you for all the comments. I will continue with the update, but not until after lunch.

Last edited by Nobody123; 01-19-2013 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:46 AM   #9
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Longshot716, I was only replying to what the original poster had stated as that was the first I had ever heard that.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:56 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShot716 View Post
You don't. Position #1 and #2 does not require that you push the detent. It is only required when going from #2 to #3 and #4. It's also required of course, when removing the gas valve and pushrod.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy View Post
Longshot716, I was only replying to what the original poster had stated as that was the first I had ever heard that.
We're both correct. The Sig rep confirmed this with me. Early production models work like yours. Late production to current models work like mine.

The owner's manual was not updated in time. Engineers are still tweaking the design as we speak so there may be future changes as well.

Sig's standard disclaimer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.sigsauer.com/CustomerService/Faq.aspx
SigSauer, Inc is continually making improvements and/or changes to our products to meet consumer demands and suggestions. All items shown on our website or catalog are subject to change without notice.

Last edited by Nobody123; 01-19-2013 at 08:01 AM.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:02 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy View Post
Longshot716, I was only replying to what the original poster had stated as that was the first I had ever heard that.
Yah...I wasn't aware that there had been a modification either. I like it the way ours is though. In Kommiefornikstan sound suppressors are illegal so I will never use position #3, and I doubt I'll use position #4 either.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:06 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShot716 View Post
Yah...I wasn't aware that there had been a modification either.
The information I provided is fresh as of Friday, 18 January 2013. So if you haven't talked to your Sig rep in a while your info may be stale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShot716 View Post
Yah...I wasn't aware that there had been a modification either. I like it the way ours is though. In Kommiefornikstan sound suppressors are illegal so I will never use position #3
In the Republic of USA I can still use suppressors as a civilian, for now...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShot716 View Post
I doubt I'll use position #4 either.
I believe #4 was added due to feedback from those who want the rifle to serve double duty for sniping. On #4 it works just like a bolt action rifle.

Last edited by Nobody123; 01-19-2013 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:11 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShot716 View Post
"5.56/.223 3 round holder insert for grip which I removed because it's useless for the 7.62x51/.308"

Actually, it's not useless. If you lived in Kommiefornikstan, as some of us 716 owners do, we have what's called a Bullet Button (modified magazine release button) on our rifles which locks the magazine in the magazine well to comply with Kommiefornikstan's AWB laws which prohibit a removeable magazine. The magazine can only be removed by inserting a tool into the recess of the Bullet Button. The dummy .223 rounds come in very handy for this purpose and I keep them stored inside the grip holder insert so they don't get lost. I know they can also be kept inside the little compartment in the butt stock but they rattle around in there making a racket.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobody123 View Post

You are absolutely correct. I have a non-CA model so there is no Bullet Button.

As stated above, when I used the dummy rounds to remove the butt stock like the manual instructed, the spring was so stiff that I dented the tips of the dummy rounds. I don't know how useful they would be now with the flat tips.
I believe MagPul is coming out with a MIAD Grip Kit specifically for the AR 10 sometime this year. Although I don't know how they'll manage to fit .308 rounds in there .

MIAD® GEN 1.1 Grip Kit – AR10/M110
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShot716 View Post
You need to be careful replacing any bolts on your rifle. You have to remember that the receiver is made out of aluminum and the threads will strip easily if care is not taken to insure proper thread size. I'm not sure, but the pan head screw supplied with the MIAD Grip Kit may be made of aluminum and replacing it with a steel hex head bolt may also damage the threads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobody123 View Post
Absolutely, although the lower receiver is somewhat magnetic, which makes me think it's some sort of aluminium alloy. I will check with the Sig rep again.
The lower receiver is forged from 7075-T6 Aircraft grade aluminum with chemically consists of the following:

Aluminum (Al) 87.1 - 91.4%
Zinc (Zn) 5.1 - 6.1% max
Copper (Cu) 1.2 - 2.0%
Chromium (Cr) 0.18 - 0.28%
Iron (Fe) 0.5 max
Magnesium (Mg) 2.1 - 2.9%
Manganese (Mn) 0.3% max
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:09 PM   #15
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Thank you for the info.

Back to the picture.

This is the bolt carrier assembly. Left is towards the front of the barrel. The top of the bolt carrier has a "T" stamped on it, indicating that this part should face the top of the rifle.

The manual says to use a punch to remove the firing pin retaining pin, but I was able to use just my fingers. The retaining pin comes out on the left side of the bolt carrier.



After the retaining pin is removed, the firing should drop out the rear of the bolt carrier.



Next remove the bolt cam pin. Pay special attention to how it comes out. If you try to insert the bolt cam pin 90* off, it won't go in. Look at the hole in the bolt cam pin for the firing pin and it will help you align the bolt cam pin.



The bolt can be removed from the bolt carrier. Pay special attention to how the extractor is oriented towards the right side of the rifle. This is how it should go back in. Make sure you don't put the extractor on the wrong side when you reinsert the bolt into the bolt carrier.



The manual says you can use the firing pin to push out the extractor retaining pin. I've done it once just to see if it's possible, but I prefer to use a punch.



After the extractor retaining pin is out, the extractor can come out. The extractor spring is very small so be careful. Note how it goes back together.

Note that the extractor spring is slightly different from the picture in the owner's manual.



Installation is reverse of removal. The manual does a good job of outlining the steps.

Just make sure the firing pin is installed correctly. It should protrude out the front of the bolt and when you tap the back of the bolt carrier lightly, the firing pin should not fall out.



Another view of the bolt carrier, bolt, firing pin, clip, and bolt cam pin. Insert the bolt into the bolt carrier. Make sure the "T" on the bolt carrier is facing the top of the rifle. The extractor should face the right side of the rifle.



View of the bolt cam pin being inserted into through the bolt carrier into the bolt. This has to be done before the firing pin can be installed. Note the hole in the bolt cam pin facing front and rear for the firing pin.



Top view. Note the orientation of the head of the pin. Flat sides face left/right. Curved sides face fore/aft.



Now the firing pin can be inserted.



Insert the firing pin retaining clip from left side of bolt carrier through right side.



Make sure that the firing pin protrudes out the front of the bolt, and gentle tapping won't make the firing pin fall out. You can look through the rear of the bolt carrier and see the firing pin retaining clip holding the shoulder of the firing pin.


Last edited by Nobody123; 01-19-2013 at 12:44 PM.
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