dlm1188

For the longest time all of the SIG rifles were not sold in California and the other day I noticed that status has been changed to "Compliant models available" This is good news! I'm glad that when I have the change to buy a SIG rifle, I'll be able to. Here's my question... I know in CA there is a 10 round limit, but also for ARs the magazine has to be "fixed" OR there cannot be a pistol grip. This being the case, what does "fixed" actually mean? I know the mags can't drop out like a true AR should... but does this mean that standard AR type mags will not work in the rifle?

txshurricane

From what I understand, the mag can still be detachable, but only with the use of a tool.

There are a number of modifications available that enable mag detachment with a key of some sort. As long as you can't remove it with your hands.

dlm1188

That's a load of crap ain't it? I can't wait to move out of this state. Hahah. But until then I gotta make my gun fixes work with the law.

Rey HRH

I only recently got interested in the hoopla about AR's. But as I started to learn more about CA requirements like the mag release ( I heard that one can learn to be proficient using a bullet or some other tool to get the mag out), 10 round limit, and something about the handgrip, I figure the most I can end up with in CA is with a wannabe AR-15. At this point, I'm willing to do without. I figure I'm already too compliant by accepting that I can't get one that can be switched to full-auto.

Gett Daddy

So true and damn I'm glad I don't live in CA. Apart from some the north of the state, I always have hated Cali.

sigp229r 

Hi Semper Fink,



In California, AR's are restricted to 10 round magazines. If your AR does not have a pistol grip, then you can have a detachable magazine. A device such as a "Monster Man Grip AR" can be used to replace the pistol grip. My personal opinion, it makes an AR look real ugly...



If you have a pistol grip, then you must have a fixed magazine. The fixed magazine means that it requires a tool to remove the magazine. The tool can be a pen, 223 cartridge, a nail, a screw, or a pen cap. There is a device called a bullet button that can be used to make the magazine a fixed magazine. The bullet button replaces the standard magazine release button. On the face of the bullet button, there is a hole. Depending on which bullet button you have, you will insert the tool into the hole to remove the magazine. The standard AR magazine will fit, however because of the 10 round restriction, you cannot use them.



I built my California legal AR... I removed the flash hider and replaced it with a muzzle break.



Hope this info helps...

dlm1188

Thanks for the comments everyone. sigp229r, you have your information down! I too think the monster man grip looks ugly, but I'm rather partial to being able to drop a magazine normally. I'll honestly probably be moved out of CA by the time I can afford an AR and I'd really like to assemble my own, but I know nothing about that.

sigp229r 

Thanks SEMPERFink... If you go to Brownell's website, there are how to videos... It's not that difficult. It takes about an hour to assemble a lower receiver.

cs4160

HI Guys,



I too was always hesitant to buy a CA legal AR-15 because they were so gimped...permanently attached magazine, top loading, etc. I was also concerned because the bullet button solution a few years ago seemed to only be adobted by the "backyard "manufactuers....or at least my local gun shops didnt have them. While admittedly naive and ignorant, i just didn't feel comfortable with the legality of the interpretation of the law. (or more accurately, it just didn't reach my tipping point to buy)



I was very surprised to see things have changed since i last looked. Many suppliers all provide this bullet button solution. Yes, it requires a tool, that can be as innocuous as a bullet, pin or ring, but its just a few dollar part swap if the rules change or i move out of state. I have been told "Normal" 30 rd mags will fit as well if the situation permits. Given the rules we must live with in California, this seems to be as good of a compromise as we can expect. Its a pain to use the "tool", but for range shooting, i can accept the extra second or two to load. The 10 rd magazine limit is far more of a pain than the "tool". Being able to change it to a normal weapon if sanity every prevails in California for very little effort sold me. I pick up mine on Friday.

sigp229r 

One word of advice... Before you shoot the rifle at the range, I've been advised to check with the shooting range if the California legal AR's are permitted there...



Also, I've heard that the second you remove the magazine from the AR using the tool (in public), you have an assault rifle. I'm told the proper way to reload is to break open the AR and load the magazine from the top without removing the magazine. This is something that I heard at the local gun shop and needs to be verified...



As far as the 30 round magazine, to the best of my knowledge, they are not allowed - 10 round magazines are the law in California.

dlm1188

Thanks for the info! I have actually shot the rangemaster's CA-legal AR at my local range, and have seen several others, so I cannot verify what you have been told, but I can say with certainty that I can shoot a CA legal AR on that range.



I'm unsure about breaking the rifle open and loading it from the top. I've only ever watched the rangemaster reload, and he dropped the magazine with the bullet button.



I know only 10 round mags are allowed in CA, but I was curious for when I move out of state. If I did by chance buy a CA legal rifle, I wanted it to be compatible with standard AR mags so I could get 30 round mags once I left the state. But with all things being as they are, I'll probably wait, do more research and build my own once I'm out of CA and just surpass the CA stuff altogether. Considering I'm certain I'll move from CA within the next few years, it seems better to just be patient and wait until I'm in a less restrictive state.

rebel619

California "bullet button" I visited my cousin and her husband up in murrieta in January and my cousins husband and I head up to bee canyon to shoot a couple of his toys one of Wich was a AR15, well next thing I know is rangers are checking out his weapons and were really interested in his AR, turns out his configuration was wrong by not having the "bullet button" and is now is facing a felony in court for possession of an "assault rifle" so I am terrified in purchasing an AR or AK because of this...just a heads up for you guys in California, be carefull and make sure your certain your legit before you leave home.

dlm1188

That's a bummer. I really dislike CA.



Funny that your cousin is out in Murrieta. I'm from Hemet, about a five minute drive from Bee Canyon, used to shoot in there all the time until the fire department began to crack down during hot weather. Now it's open so little throughout the year, the few times I'm in Hemet it is either closed or packed with 100 people trying to shoot.

rebel619

Yea its a cool place, but it was packed!, we had to drive all the way to the end and lucky got the last spot before you start going up hill...I have a feeling we wont be going there anymore do haha, Theres really no good places down here in San Diego to shoot mostly indoor ranges...

cs4160

Hi, I also live in San Diego. I guess you could try shooting at the rainbow range up near temecula, otherwise its blm land or indoors i guess. Rainbow requires a membership fee iirc. If anyone else knows of any good ranges in the area, please comment.



After speaking with the local sheriffs, and this is certainly not a legal opinion from an attorney, they seemed to be well versed with the bullet button concept. Using a tool appears to be fine, but they cautioned me not to use the bullet button magnets or anything that could be interpreted as modifying the weapon into a condition that would be considered a banned assault rifle. If you use a tool to remove the mag, thats fine. if you use a tool to change it from a fixed mag to a removable one, ie the magnet, and you leave the magnet on, then you are in a world of hurt if you get caught. I have not heard of the requirement to break open the weapon prior to doing a magazine change. Calguns.net has some good articles about the various issues. I suggest checking them out.



BTW, 30 rds magazines do work in the Sig 516, so if you move out of state, you have not gimped your weapon. The bullet button can also be swapped out for a few dollars so i see no downside in getting a California compliant weapon if you worried about resetting it to a standard configuration if you move. For me, the extra effort of using the tool to remove the magazine is not an issue. I dont use the AR for home defense, its just a range gun, so magazine swaps are not that much of a chore...



I know that people who registered their AR prior to the ban in California, could use their high cap magazines, they cant buy new mags, but they can use and repair their pre ban ones. I am unsure as to the legality of if you had a high cap magazine prior to the ban, but wanted to use them in a newly purchased AR. I would be careful simply going by someones opinion on this issue. I "think" you are ok, but thats not good enough for me, given the consequences if you are wrong.

rebel619

Thanks for the info cs4160, and I am definitely gonna look into that rainbow shooting range, I heard there's a nice place in jacumba off of the 8 but don't look foward to the drive since I don't have exact directions, I think you shouldn't have to pay to fire your weapon just for plinking but I guess this isnt burger king I can't always have it my way...

JackSauer

Yep that's why I'm saving up for an M1A!

sigp229r 

Hey Jack,



If you live in California, make sure you get a California legal M1A... That means no trademark flash suppressor, but an ugly muzzle break/stabilizer and a detachable 10 round magazine.

cs4160

Hi,

I just wanted to comment on my previous post regarding using a pre ban hi cap magazine with a newly purchased california compliant AR, specifically the 516, but this would apply to any "bullet button" rifle.



DON'T.



Calguns has a great flowchart that can help you navigate the maze of rules,



http://www.calguns.n...d/flowchart.pdf



but bottom line, PC 12276.1 (a) lists 3 tests to determine if your weapon has the characteristics of an assault weapon. Our bullet button gets us passed section (1), the length of weapon gets us past (3), but (2) is the kicker.



(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.







By my read, once you put a legal pre ban hi cap magazine in your California compliant SIG AR, its now designated as an Assault Rifle. Go straight to jail, do not collect 200 dollars...







By the way, finally gotten around to shooting my 2 week old Sig 516....very very nice. The tool to release the mag was no big deal, the rifle shot far better than my skill level. Not a big fan of the scope, but the actual weapon was exceptional. Very happy with my purchase.

bryhead619

I also live in San Diego and they just said these things when i was buying my rifles.

1) the rifle cannot be under 30" long i think it is for the high caliber rifles that's included with the folding stock folded.

2) It has to have a bullet button instead of a quick mag release/ambi mag release.

3) it can only be semi automatic

4) you cannot hold more that 10rds per mag (this sucks). you could get the larger Pmag's but they are capped at 10rds as well.



here a pic of my toys:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64749930@N07/5896426271/