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First SIG,last SIG

10K views 56 replies 33 participants last post by  yupyeahwhateva 
#1 · (Edited)
Okay so I bought my first SIG. A 716 certified pre owned. I took it to the range tonight and I am very disappointed. From the first single shot to the last single shot it would not cycle. I ran 3 different kinds of ammo 147,168 &175 grain all with the same issue. Most times it would eject the spent round but not chamber the next . Some times it would jam and not even eject the spent casing. I've read a little on the issue and hear that they recommend frog lube or other select lubricants to correct the issue. Has anyone had this issue? Did the special lubricant work? This being my first SIG I have to say that my faith in the product line is severely damaged from this first range trip. It was probably sent back to SIG under warranty for failure to cycle issues and they shipped it out and pushed the problems off to the next buyer. Is it possible that this rifle could ever get to the point of being considered reliable after having such issues? I'm just extremely disappointed.
 
#39 ·
My 716 ran like a top from the first cleaning/wet lube on. I understand that some don't and require a little work from SIG Sauer. I would work with them to get your rifle right. Don't worry about "turnaround times" and such...just get them to make it right, whatever it takes.

The 716 is a workhorse and absolutely worth owning. The only reason I sold mine was because I had to for financial reasons. I sold it to a friend and he has been enjoying the rifle as much as I did.

Lastly, if I based my decisions on what to buy or not based on just one experience, I would barely own anything. I really do sympathize with all that have troubles with SIGs but I simply haven't and don't believe for a minute that it's just dumb luck. These are quality firearms made by an expanding business. They'll make it right.
 
#40 ·
I just received my P239 back from SIG last Thursday. They had it back to me in 6 days from receipt. Had a walking pin and got AEP, barrel target crown and new night sights.

I own 4 SIG pistols and have never had a bad experience from SIG customer service. Just my $0.02.

I also clean and lube every new gun I buy before taking it to the range.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S III
 
#45 ·
I would. I only had excellent service for there CS. I just sent them a C3 for a upgrade, Called them out of the blue and got a 50.00 2 way over night ticket from them had them do the custom work and had it back in 5 days. I had them do a custom 1911 Trigger and add a flared Magwell polish the guides and re work the guide rod. They charged me 112.00 that included the all parts & labor.
 
#46 ·
I had a 716 (sold it to make a couple hundred off it a couple months back) that ran great. I only put about 80rds through it though, but ran great. When I first got it, I didn't break it down at all before shooting it (just ran a bore snake through it at the range I purchased it at, and then started to shoot it). I got 1 magazine of 150gr Federal American Eagle through it and then after a couple rounds in the next magazine it started to fail to feed (short stroke). I realized it was dry, and pulled the bolt out and oiled it a little bit. Guess what? The next two magazines of 150gr American Eagle I ran through it went without issue. Then after that I put a magazine of 168gr Hornady Z-max through there and same thing, ran perfectly.

Fast forward to now, and I have a 516 that runs .223, 5.56 and .22lr all on the 'normal' gas setting and its had 0 FTF/FTE issues after 735rds now. The first 130rds I ran some regular CLP that was MPRO-7. Since that I've run Frog Lube (paste) in the 516 and it works just as good as the liquid MPRO-7 CLP, it just doesn't dry up like the MPRO-7 does.

Point being, is there are several people whom have stated their 516 run like ****, and won't cycle .223 unless its on the 'adverse' gas setting.

That said why don't you try running your rifle on the #2 'adverse' setting and see if that doesn't help with the short stroke issue? If it does, you will be able to narrow the field of what the issue is down a bit.






Here is what I would try before sending it back to sig:

1) clean the barrel out (MPRO-7 gun cleaner) with rod/brush, make sure the gas port in the barrel isn't clogged
2) run a bore snake through the barrel a few times with Frog Lube liquid on the brush and near the end of the tail
3) pull the buffer spring/buffer out of the tube, wipe the tube out and put some Frog Lube paste in there, on the spring and the buffer
4) put Frog Lube paste (a good amount) on the BCG and cycle it back and fourth through the upper. Pull it back out, wipe it clean and then put a TINY amount back onto the contact points
5) pull the gas valve and piston/spring assemble out of the rifle. Make sure the ports on the valve are CLEAN and not clogged up. After cleaning it to the point it looks brand new, add Frog Lube paste to the spring on the piston. Then with a q-tip add a little of the paste to the hole (area the piston comes through the upper receiver) in the upper for the piston


After that is all done

1) head to the range and run some 7.62x51 NATO ammunition through the rifle (not .308 Winchester, 7.62x51 runs at a significantly higher pressure than .308 Win) on the NORMAL gas setting.
2) if it is short stroking on the NORMAL gas setting, switch it to ADVERSE and try again

If it is managing to fire and cycle properly and only have a couple FTF/FTE issues per magazine, continue to shoot the rifle to help break it in more.


If the rifle runs on adverse, I would run several magazines (minimum of 100rds) through it to help wear the contact points in. After that I would retry running the rifle on the NORMAL setting and see if it works any better than your first two trips to the range.





Things to note:
* The rifle is chambered in 7.62x51, so it might not like anything besides the higher pressure ammunition. If you haven't run 7.62x51 through it, do so before going any further.
* Try running the rifle on adverse gas setting
* Either you, or your gunsmith should polish the chamber to a very smooth finish which will help with extraction and help with short strokes (SIG does this to rifles that go in for short stroking from what I've read)
* Along with the chamber, polish all contact points on the bolt carrier, along with the locking lugs on the bolt


PS: If the rifle runs in ADVERSE mode with 7.62x51 without any issue and you cannot get it to run properly in NORMAL mode no matter what you do... consider having your gunsmith open up the hole on the valve for the NORMAL mode to allow a little more gas to go through the gun. Check for function after every time you open it up a tiny bit further. That said, I wouldn't go to this step until you have run at least 500 rounds of 7.62x51 (not .308) ammunition through the rifle yourself and broken things in a bit more. Even more would be better, but I realize its kind of expensive in the currently climate.







Good luck with your 716, and don't let this experience turn you off from SIG. I've owned several SIG products over the past few years, and I've never had 1 issue with any of them. You will read more bad things about products on the internet than you will about good (because people that are ****** generally are more inclined to spend the time to rant about their issue) so don't think that all 716 or 516 rifles are **** just because you read more of those threads than ones like I just posted talking about how I've run 735rds of .223 and 5.56 through my 516 without a single issue at all.
 
#48 ·
...head to the range and run some 7.62x51 NATO ammunition through the rifle (not .308 Winchester, 7.62x51 runs at a significantly higher pressure than .308 Win) on the NORMAL gas setting.
I confess, I haven't really looked this up - but is 7.62mm NATO / 308 Winchester the case wherein the non - military rounds actually run at higher pressures?
 
#49 ·
Whisky's guns:

Wife : Ruger 22/45- S&W AirLite Mod 317 .22 - Sig 238 .380cal - Bersa Mod 83 .380cal - Glock 19 9mm - Glock 34 9mm - STI Elektra 9mm Pink - Ruger LCR .357mag

Self : Sig 938 9mm - E.German Makarov 9x18 - Browning HP 9mm - Glock 24 .40cal - STI Elektra .45cal Black - Mossberg 20ga pistol grip
The only two Sigs I see listed are a P238 (Wife's) and a P938 (His). Maybe that explains things. If his first Sig had been an Ultra 1911, I think he'd be singing a different tune.

I looked back at his posts and he did have issues with both the P238 and P938. Bad first impressions are hard to overcome, and that is sort of what this thread is about.
 
#50 ·
I don't own a 716. However, I WON an m400 in the monthly giveaway from Sig. Everyone I spoke with was energetic and fantastic.
I also own a P6, a P229-1 and a November build P938. All have been perfect. Now I must say that my first M400 experience at the range was not the best BECAUSE I did not tear it down and lube it before the range, after I did it has been amazing.
In my experience with the Sig employees as well as their products, it has only been positive and I'm hooked.
I've been in the hotel industry for almost a decade and Customer Service is my forte'.
 
#51 ·
7.62X51 has a lower pressure than .308 Winchester. And if it didn't state right in the owners manual that it was safe to shoot .308 in the 716, I wouldn't have done it. That isn't something to be taken lightly, bad things could happen.
 
#52 ·
@762MM TEXAN you quoted 1) head to the range and run some 7.62x51 NATO ammunition through the rifle (not .308 Winchester, 7.62x51 runs at a significantly higher pressure than .308 Win)

the opposite is true, the 308 is the higher pressure round.I broke mine in w/308(400 rds.) on normal, went to shoot some x51 had some luck w/1/2 of the mag not FTE/FTF , switched on over to adverse with the x51 ammo,ran like a clock,shot another 150-200 on adverse,and then switched on over to normal and ran another 100 rds of x51 thru it with out a hiccup.Hasn't malfunctioned again and it seemed to be very tight in its tolerances. Higher pressure round seemed to break it in along with the adverse setting with the lower pressure ammo. flawless now, hopefully most of the issues are just due to building a very close tolerance gun and it for most just needs to be cleaned and properly lubricated. YMMV
 
#53 ·
Well my 716 is on its way back from SIG , be here in a few days. The gunsmiths notes said it was a problem with the gas block. It apparently was changed before being shipped out for sale to me. I was told by CS that they have discovered a problem with the sharpness of the dies after machining so many parts they start to not cut correctly. He said although the difference in hole size is slight it will not allow enough gas to make it cycle. I will say this, their customer service was excellent and there turn around times are unbelievable.I just hope the gun functions properly now.
 
#54 ·
Can't wait to hear the bang, can you :lol:
 
#55 ·
I really hope it works well for you. I do have to question what they told you or if it may have gotten relayed to you wrong. I've been a tool and die maker for 20 years and what you were told is just plain common sense. Besides that, they have to have some sort of quality assurance in place. To me that hole would be a critical dimension. Wouldn't take but a second to check it with a go/no go gauge. Or at the least check one every so often and if they found one to be out of tolerance it would be easy to go back and find out when it went bad in the production run. That being said, I will agree that no matter how good the system, things do get missed. Even the best system is not perfect. Like I said, I hope it all works out for you and hope you post your results soon.
 
#56 ·
I will post results gun is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. That is exactly what customer service read to me from the gunsmiths notes. That the gas block was bad and that they replaced it and polished the feed ramp as a courtesy. The guy in CS said it did t need to be off by much to create a problem.he said they discovered the problem sometime back and that it wasn't the first time, they have seen several sent back for this issue but the problem is "not on going". I'm not sure what that means exactally, I'm just hoping it works. It is very frustrating trying a different brand of anything and finding problems from day one. Many consider this whining it just doesn't instill a lot of Confidence in there brand. I want to like SIG as much as I do Colt and HK. A lot of people say they make quality product or I wouldn't have bought one. It's just a rough start.
 
#57 ·
58worldseries

thanks for the detailed info about your experience, new to this forum, but been using various Sigs for a couple decades and I can definitely say the net net over the years with Sig has been far better than any other brand I've used... if you stick with them, I'm sure you'll be satisfied...
 
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