This is a discussion on Sig Sauer P210 Super Target 6" and OAL within the Ammo and Reloading forums, part of the Gun Forum category; Hello everybody! I would like to aks you for help about determinating OAL for Sig Sauer P210 Super Target 6". I am using 123gr HP ...
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|05-21-2020, 02:32 AM||#1|
Sig Sauer P210 Super Target 6" and OAL
I would like to aks you for help about determinating OAL for Sig Sauer P210 Super Target 6". I am using 123gr HP bullets.
I want to find optimal OAL and load for precision shooting with best grouping.
With a method pushing into the barrel a used cartridge + bullet, I got a length about 30.2 mm (1.19").
Then I started to make test rounds with decreasing OAL. Only at 29.75 mm (1.17") I got a nice plung sound and smoothless rotating in the barrel.
Is this OK?
The problem is that even at 29.75 mm (1.17") there are some rounds that rotates OK in the barrel, but with a little catching on. This also happens with some rounds at 29.6 mm (1.165") or even lower.
There are lots of discussions which is the optimum OAL regarding max length. So how much shorter should OAL be regarding max length test.
What do you think?
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|05-21-2020, 01:21 PM||#4|
Join Date: Feb 2016
Likes Received 2861
Welcome to the world of reloading. The other day I was loading some 45 acp. The book called for l.23 OAL. So I loaded a few only to look at them and say "wow, that seems long". They were 200 gr fmjfp. The manufacturer was Berry's Bullets. I then went to the internet and found that most people load Berry's bullets at 1.17. Now I know why. The design of the bullet determines the OAL. By the way, Berry's bullets are not listed in Reloading manuals. So with some bullets you have to find the correct OAL the old school way. Paint the bullet with a magic marker and put the bullet in the barrel to get your seating depth, (the marker will scrape and show you when the bullet contacts the rifling) and make sure your case is fully supported and seated correctly. It works believe it or not.
Then you have to make sure the loaded round loads in your magazine. Hope this helps.
My Hornady books shows you should be at around 1.060-1.050 OAL 1.17 seems pretty long if you ask me.
Last edited by Fishjager; 05-21-2020 at 01:26 PM.
|05-21-2020, 01:30 PM||#5|
If they fit and feed fine in the magazine at 1.170" then 0.020" less then max should be good. I might try a different way of measuring max though just to compair. I usually size a piece of brass, bell the mouth just enough to seat the bullet, seat it long, crimp just enough to remove the bell but not so much that you can't seat the bullet deeper and just keep seating it until it drops in flush with the barrel hood with a good plunk sound. The around 0.020" less than that should be good to go. Though that's if the manufacturer of the bullets your using is fairly consistent. If not you may want to push to 0.030" shorter than max.
|05-21-2020, 01:45 PM||#7|
|05-21-2020, 06:39 PM||#8|
Join Date: May 2020
Likes Received 58
Benchrest rifles are my niche but there are some crossovers to precision handgun reloading
No way handgun bullets are consistent enough to maintain a high-precision seating depth.
So accept that perfection isn’t needed because it’s not there to start with.
I like to find seating depth by using a cleaning rod (pencil for pistols) You can push on a dummy round and feel if it freely moves or has resistance at first. That resistance is the jacket engaging the lands. It’s fool proof. I can feel more accurately than I can hear
If you want to give it a try...put the cleaning rod in muzzle end and load the dummy cartridge in the chamber. Push back and forth and get a feel for it. Load one long, chamber it and push on it with the cleaning rod...you’ll feel it stick bc the jacket is in the lands. You can feel a stick to the .0005. I guarantee that you can’t hear .0005. Keep seating further from the lands until you no longer feel it stick. This is your touching or just shy of touching. I doubt you’ll reliably feed from a magazine, though
All that might be too hardcore for handguns...I dunno.
The longer you seat the more powder you can use to increase velocity while maintaining same pressure as less powder. Most often benchrest level accuracy is found near max loads. And bullets don’t like to jump...
Last edited by Kerneldrop; 05-22-2020 at 02:05 AM.
|05-21-2020, 10:26 PM||#9|
I tried to paint the bullet with a magic marker on that one that still has some resistance in rotating it in the barrel (2-3 out of 10).
There are no scratches visible. So OAL I tried is 0.018-0.024" shorter than max. It rotates OK, just in one position I get some resistance. Also the plunk test is OK. Well if I don't hit that resistance position...
Could there be anything else that causes the resistance?
Should I even bother about that? If 7-8 out of 10 are OK and they all have the same length...
Or I am doing all methods of determining my max wrong and I should get much shorter... I don't think so if most of them are OK and also some 0.012" shorter have the same problem.
If the recipe for best result is really 0.020" less than max, then I wouldn't like to be on -0.040".
|05-22-2020, 03:44 AM||#10|
Join Date: May 2020
Likes Received 58
7-8 are OK just tells me the consistency isn’t there...whether components or technique.
the marker will be tough to see without jamming the bullet into the lands. . In rifle bullets you use 00 steel wool and a loupe to see rifling. You aren’t looking for scratches, your looking for where the rifling prints on the bullet. It’s a distinct look.
I would start with max mag length. Then see if it passes your other tests or processes you use. If not, shorten until it does. Unless you want to roll single shot
|05-22-2020, 11:48 AM||#11|
Join Date: Aug 2019
Likes Received 10
What minimum length does your load recipe say ? 9mm SAAMI max length is 1.169. Your Barrel’s max COAL is generally push test less 0.015, then round down to a common length. Depending on the bullet weight, construction and shape, my pistol works better with at least .255” seating depth. So I usually work between the two to find a length that cycles well, gives the best burn, and has the best groupings.
|05-24-2020, 09:55 PM||#12|
To check if I made anything wrong I made the push test again and I always get 1.194" (30,35 mm). So for now I will stick with the OAL at 1.17" (29.75 mm).
With discussed methods I couldn't determined that the bullet would, at that shorter OAL then MAX, sometimes cause slight resistance in the barrel.
It looks like that the brass causes this. I tried inserting only brasses, one time shot and not reused, and the problem is the same. All from the same manufacturer S&B, not all shot by me. If I then run them through my press, different ones causes the resistance, not the ones that already did before.
Maybe this is normal and I am just making a problem out of this?
Or I should check the first stage die which is not making the job done OK?
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