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300 Black Out and Lil' Gun

This is a discussion on 300 Black Out and Lil' Gun within the Ammo and Reloading forums, part of the Gun Forum category; Hello All, I just wanted to know if anyone had any experiences with reloading 300 Black Outs with Lil' Gun powder? I am using the ...


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Old 07-28-2020, 10:28 AM   #1
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300 Black Out and Lil' Gun

Hello All, I just wanted to know if anyone had any experiences with reloading 300 Black Outs with Lil' Gun powder? I am using the Hornady ELD-x 220 grain projectiles and shooting them out of the 5.5 inch barrel of my Rattler. My initial charge was 8.6 grains and that did not cycle very well. My second batch was upped to 9.0 grains and they were sometimes cycling. I have not reloaded since the late '70's and any constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated. My goal is to produce some reliable subsonic ammunition for my unsuppressed Rattler. Thanks.
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Old 07-28-2020, 02:34 PM   #2
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I'm also experimenting with a subsonic load; using Lil' Gun with a Ranier Ballistics 180 gr. "wedge" bullet. I'm using a home-built AR pistol with an 8.5" barrel.

My last test, also w/ 9.0 grains LG, averaged 475 fps. They cycle fine, but are too slow, IMO.

Hodgdon's reloading site shows 1680 fps for a 13.4 grain starting load with Lil' Gun (this is for a 180 gr. bullet). So, I will probably load a few at 10.0 grains and a few at 11.0 and see how they shoot.

For the 220 gr. round, it says 8.4 grains is max @ 1062 fps. All these sites seem to be on the conservative side. Do you have a chronograph? Have you tried any commercial, subsonic ammo that works? i.e. maybe S&B's 220 gr. sub load? It would be nice to know that the gun will cycle with a commercial, subsonic round.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:07 PM   #3
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OP,
Accurate #1680 powder may be a better option compared to Hodgdon's Lil gun w/ a pistol length Bbl.

Lovex SBR-SOCOM (D063-01) powder is the ticket for subsonic heavies that will cycle in an impingement gas system.
Lovex BlackOut Rifle (D063-02) powder @ 15gr would cycle 240gr sub sonic rounds in my carbine system.

reiney-
Sellier & Bellot 220 gr subsonic loads will NOT cycle in my 16" carbine length impingement
system w/ adj block wide open.
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Last edited by DansSIGs; 07-28-2020 at 10:41 PM.
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Old 07-29-2020, 12:00 AM   #4
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Looks like IMR 4198 is about the same burn rate as A1680.

I have some of the slower powders in that range; I will try that as well.

Think he will have un-burnt powder with the 5.5" barrel?

Last edited by reiney; 07-29-2020 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 07-29-2020, 09:43 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reiney View Post
Looks like IMR 4198 is about the same burn rate as A1680.

I have some of the slower powders in that range; I will try that as well.

Think he will have un-burnt powder with the 5.5" barrel?

Accurate #1680 is of faster burn rate than 4198 from any manufacturer,Hodgdon or IMR...aka between LilGun/H110/296 & 4198.

Yes,there will be un-burnt powders if loaded w/ an extruded powder in the virtuously shoulder less 300B.O. case.
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Old 07-29-2020, 11:44 AM   #6
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My chart shows them the same, but of course, there are probably many charts out there ...
Attached Files
File Type: pdf reloadingburningratechart2011.pdf (133.4 KB, 7 views)
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Old 07-29-2020, 03:28 PM   #7
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With my limited experience with this new caliber, I've been finding that Lil gun appears to be the best powder sofar for all the bullet weights I've tried so far in the 300 BLK.
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Old 07-29-2020, 04:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reiney View Post
My chart shows them the same, but of course, there are probably many charts out there ...
reiney,
according to the posted burn rate chart-
W/O any doubt
W-W 680 in NOT of faster burn rate than A#1680 or RL#7.

Powder burn rates vary from chambering to chambering w/ constriction of internal ballistics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loadedround View Post
With my limited experience with this new caliber, I've been finding that Lil gun appears to be the best powder sofar for all the bullet weights I've tried so far in the 300 BLK.
loadedround,
I've loaded the 300Whisper's multiple leade angle chamber designed for the 220-240gr projectiles since it's inception 30+ years ago & to date.
The 300AAC B.O. is the glorified version to run 110-220gr projectiles,sub & super sonic.

Hodgdon LilGun makes excessive heat/flame,but does NOT produce an abundance of gases that is required to run subsonic ammo thru it's intended platform...suppressed.
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Old 07-29-2020, 09:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Accurate #1680 is of faster burn rate than 4198 from any manufacturer,Hodgdon or IMR...aka between LilGun/H110/296 & 4198.
Quote:
W/O any doubt
W-W 680 in NOT of faster burn rate than A#1680 or RL#7.
Seems to be some confusion. I was stating (based on the chart I uploaded),
that IMR 4198 has an equivalent burn rate to Accurate 1680. I never mentioned anything about W-W 680, or RL#7 ...
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Old 07-30-2020, 11:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reiney View Post
Seems to be some confusion. I was stating (based on the chart I uploaded),
that IMR 4198 has an equivalent burn rate to Accurate 1680. I never mentioned anything about W-W 680, or RL#7 ...
All are in the neighborhood,depending on the case that either is loaded into.
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Old 07-31-2020, 07:27 PM   #11
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Thank you all for the valuable input. Along with your comments, my research has turned over some new (to me) information. I have not found any load data charts for the Rattler's 5.5 inch barrel.

One source stated that for every 1 inch of barrel shorter than the 16 inch test barrel, the re-loader should expect to see about a drop of approximately 10 feet per second. The test barrel minus the rattler barrel is about eleven inches. Take that times 10 and I should be preparing loads for 110 feet per second faster than what i will actually be seeing in my back yard. In order to verify this, I have purchased a chronograph as one of you suggested.....Thanks. It should be here by Tuesday.

Next item, I have seen a lot of this newer powder CFE BLK by Hodgdon. It seems to have numbers very similar to Accurate 1680. Just picked up a can of this stuff (CFE BLK) tonight and will load a few tomorrow.

Last item, has anyone used the Vihtavuori N110 or any of the other faster burning powders listed on the burn rate chart from a few comments ago?

Thanks a lot, y'all have been quite helpful so far.
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Old 07-31-2020, 10:38 PM   #12
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I've used: H110, IMR 4227, Lil' Gun, IMR4198 in 300 BLK supers & subs

Did some testing Thurs. & Fri.

All tests done w/ 8.5" barrel AR pistol; Ranier Ballistics 180 gr. "wedge" bullet, OAL 2.15", CCI-400 primers, 91-97 degrees at about 6000' ASL.

Lil' Gun:

10.0 gr. - av. 1305 fps
10.5 gr. - av. 1293 fps
11.0 gr. - av. 1368 fps

All rounds cycled.

IMR 4198:

9.0 gr. - av. 842 fps. (did not cycle)
10.0 gr. - av. 924 fps. (7 of 10 cycled)
11.0 gr. - av. 1029 fps (all rounds cycled)

Test load:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 300_BLK-180.jpg (1.69 MB, 0 views)
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Old 08-02-2020, 05:01 PM   #13
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I just tried 12 grains of CFE BLK on some Hornady 190 grain Sub-X's. Rattler cycled through all 10 rounds. The next lower load I prepared was 11.2 grains and the Rattler did NOT cycle. I will try to find the lowest functional load when the chronograph shows up in a few days.
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Old 08-03-2020, 01:41 AM   #14
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... That's cool ... I have been wanting to try CFE-BLK as well; interested in your chronograph numbers.

I would not necessarily go for the the absolute lowest load that cycles becuase you might want a little "headroom" to account for varying conditions like temperature and whether or not the gun is clean or dirty. This can be somewhat compensated for by having slightly more gas than is needed during "normal" conditions and dialing back the gas block setting. Then, you have some adjustability for "adverse" conditions (heavy fouling, etc.).
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