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How fast do you need to be?

This is a discussion on How fast do you need to be? within the Concealed Carry forums, part of the Gun Forum category; Lately (and I suppose long before I arrived here) there's been lively discussions about safety vs. no safety, carrying with a round in the chamber ...


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Old 02-12-2020, 05:17 PM   #1
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How fast do you need to be?

Lately (and I suppose long before I arrived here) there's been lively discussions about safety vs. no safety, carrying with a round in the chamber or not, appendix carry vs. shooting your nuts off, why it's a good idea to train for someone trying to murder you in your car, and the proper way for a civilian to clear a room or home vs. getting himself killed.

It's all in fun. For me anyway. I'm skilled in the handling and operation of firearms and techniques in the broad topic of self-defense. I don't really care what other people do. But their points of view are still interesting to me. I do wonder sometimes if some of the posts are from people who have ever actually had someone shooting at them. Or had to shoot back. But that's not the point of this topic and in no way do I judge people who have never experienced the thrill of someone trying to kill them.

With that out of the way, here's my question:

How much time is needed to recognize a dangerous threat and act in self defense?

In other words, wherever you may be... walking down a street, driving, sitting in a diner, or similar circumstances. On average, how long is it before you observe the threat, conclude that you are in a truly dangerous situation, and need to draw your weapon and pull the trigger?

A nanosecond?
2.5 minutes?
30 seconds?
45 minutes?

Last edited by 193698; 02-12-2020 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 02-12-2020, 05:27 PM   #2
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It is well known that Abe Lincoln was once asked how long a man’s legs should be. His reply? “Long enough to reach the ground.”
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Old 02-12-2020, 05:32 PM   #3
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It is well known that Abe Lincoln was once asked how long a man’s legs should be. His reply? “Long enough to reach the ground.”
That's a clever reply and I like it.

But about Abe... look what happened to him. BTW: I used to live on what was once the Booth estate. The house he lived in is still there. True story.
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Old 02-12-2020, 05:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnG View Post
Lately (and I suppose long before I arrived here) there's been lively discussions about safety vs. no safety, carrying with a round in the chamber or not, appendix carry vs. shooting your nuts off, why it's a good idea to train for someone trying to murder you in your car, and the proper way for a civilian to clear a room or home vs. getting himself killed.

It's all in fun. For me anyway. I'm skilled in the handling and operation of firearms and techniques in the broad topic of self-defense. I don't really care what other people do. But their points of view are still interesting to me. I do wonder sometimes if some of the posts are from people who have ever actually had someone shooting at them. Or had to shoot back. But that's not the point of this topic and in no way do I judge people who have never experienced someone trying to kill them.

With that out of the way, here's my question:

How much time is needed to recognize a dangerous threat and act in self defense?

In other words, wherever you may be... walking down a street, driving, sitting in a diner, or similar circumstances. On average, how long is it before you observe the threat, conclude that you are in a truly dangerous situation, and need to draw your weapon and pull the trigger?

A nanosecond?
2.5 minutes?
30 seconds?
45 minutes?
As with all open ended questions there is no correct answer. Every situation is different and has a different answer

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Old 02-12-2020, 05:46 PM   #5
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As with all open ended questions there is no correct answer. Every situation is different and has a different answer

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Not really. It's a simple question. How long does it take someone to decide to draw and pull the bang switch? My theory is it will be apparent why I'm asking after people begin to answer.

Ask yourself... can you make that decision in five seconds? Ten? Two? How fast can your brain accurately process a threat and your body act? What is the reality. That is the point I'm aiming to illustrate.
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Old 02-12-2020, 05:58 PM   #6
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I find the term "Israeli carry" insulting to Israelis because I don't think they're that stupid. My Jewish friends are very bright.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:03 PM   #7
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Not really. It's a simple question. How long does it take someone to decide to draw and pull the bang switch? My theory is it will be apparent why I'm asking after people begin to answer.
Once the decision has been made and you are committed to the next steps, drawing and pulling the bang switch takes very little time. That's not really the issue.

It's the assessment and deciding that can take time, and while it may not take a lot of time, it will still take precious seconds. And remember - the person who has already decided to attack you is at a huge advantage. They've already decided to do something that you are still deciding whether and how to react to. And that's only if you actually see the attack coming, or maybe only see it at the last second. There may also be more than one attacker.

For that reason, you need to be able to assess and decide on a course of action as fast as possible. But you also need to have your techniques and systems down and regularly practiced to make sure they do not cause you any additional delays. Economy of motion is not only important, your life may truly depend on it. People die when they are still trying to fish their gun out of a holster that is positioned behind them, under several heavy winter layers, for example, because they never practice it to see if it will really work when needed - they just went with what felt comfortable and convenient as a carry position.

So to your question - How fast do you have to be? You definitely have to be faster than your attacker/s, recognizing they are already well ahead of you.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:05 PM   #8
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I find the term "Israeli carry" insulting to Israelis because I don't think they're that stupid. My Jewish friends are very bright.

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It's not an insult, many Israeli agencies carry and train with an empty chamber. There are youtube videos showing that.

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Old 02-12-2020, 06:08 PM   #9
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Once the decision has been made and you are committed to the next steps, drawing and pulling the bang switch takes very little time. That's not really the issue. [/I]
You are homing in on what I'm getting at.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:13 PM   #10
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I find the term "Israeli carry" insulting to Israelis because I don't think they're that stupid. My Jewish friends are very bright.
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Lancer, we haven't met and I'm not Jewish but you are mishpocheh to me.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:19 PM   #11
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It's not an insult, many Israeli agencies carry and train with an empty chamber. There are youtube videos showing that.

My understanding is that current Israeli LE and MIL training for full time active personnel who face the enemy (not reserve troops) is not to carry with an empty chamber, and that all those videos are demonstrating what used to be the case years ago. I'll have to research it and report back.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:24 PM   #12
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Lancer, we haven't met and I'm not Jewish but you are mishpocheh to me.
I'm only an honorary Jew so my Yiddish is rusty, but I recognize mishpachah when I see it.
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:27 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Lancer L5 AWM View Post
My understanding is that current Israeli LE and MIL training for full time active personnel who face the enemy (not reserve troops) is not to carry with an empty chamber, and that all those videos are demonstrating what used to be the case years ago. I'll have to research it and report back.
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https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/truth-israeli-carry/

They still carry empty chamber

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Old 02-12-2020, 06:31 PM   #14
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Seems like if an attacker had one of your arms with one hand and was cutting you up with his other hand, or some similar situation, an empty chamber would not be a very good idea...
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Old 02-12-2020, 06:35 PM   #15
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Seems like if an attacker had one of your arms with one hand and was cutting you up with his other hand, or some similar situation, an empty chamber would not be a very good idea...
Correct I never carry empty chamber. I also won't carry a hand gun with a manual safety. My safety is my brain and my finger off the trigger until I'm going to shoot

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