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Looking for your thoughts...AR Pistols

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Old 08-28-2020, 11:58 AM   #16
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Another consideration as to why I'd most likely depend on my carry handgun at first is that if I have to use it to back someone(s) off, it might give me chance/opening to drive and maneuver the hell out of there. So it would probably be more difficult and possibly really hazardous with something the size of a submachine gun in my hands as my heart is pounding like an MG42 and I'm driving like a maniac.
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Old 08-28-2020, 01:15 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by powermad View Post
I built a decent AR9 with a PSA 8" upper.
I put it on an Areo lower and SBA3 brace with a LAW folder and feed it with Endomags.
The KVP linear comp works very well at directing noise and blast away from the shooter.

Knowing what I know now, I would have to recommend the CMMG 8" Radial Delayed Blowback barrel and BCG with their version of the Endomags.

...

I was out shooting the AR9 a couple weeks ago with a distance of 76 yards.
It's zeroed at 25 yds with a Romeo5 Predator and we were ringing my 9" plate with it at 76 yds pretty easy.
Fun, practical and plenty of defensive potential. Nice build.
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Old 08-28-2020, 02:37 PM   #18
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Frankly, from INSIDE a vehicle my carry handgun would be my first go-to if someone were right on top of me. Just easiest to get to and deploy. And then if you could buy yourself some time and reach or exit, then the longer gun. [/IMG]
Exactly my thoughts. If someone is "on your vehicle" you don't need the extras that a PCC or subgun provides (slightly more ammo, longer sight radius). A pistol is easier at that point.
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Old 08-28-2020, 02:50 PM   #19
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I have a CZ Scorpion and as much as I enjoy it, for not that much more I think the Sig MPX is the way to go. That or the delayed roller lock version of the Stribog.

Downside to both the MPX and the Stribog IMO are the mags. CZ definitely got those right.
MPX mags are crazy expensive relatively speaking and they dropped the 8" barrel which was my favorite model. 4" k model will work just as well, just a personal aesthetic that i liked.
The Stribog has crappy mags from what I understand, design just isn't great.

9mm PCC/PDWs are cool, I'd probably have bought the MPX if I did the whole thing again.

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Old 08-28-2020, 02:53 PM   #20
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Get a SIG Rattler in .300 AAC Blackout.

Extremely small. Powerful... Pistol PDW configuration can be concealed carried in many states.
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Old 08-28-2020, 02:56 PM   #21
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I stumbled on a sig copperhead a couple months ago at a lgs. Have a holosun 510 on it zeroed at 25yrds. Really accurate and fun to shoot. Fits in my messenger style backpack. AR in 9mm would be cheaper to build if you can find all the parts right now.

I got the copperhead because we made a trip to the airport during some recent protests. Pistol with a few extra mags didn't feel like quite enough and I didn't want to pack the rifle. Pistol with copperhead in backpack with extra mags will handle a lot of situations

Pistol 556 is going to be loud
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Old 08-28-2020, 04:18 PM   #22
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Exactly my thoughts. If someone is "on your vehicle" you don't need the extras that a PCC or subgun provides (slightly more ammo, longer sight radius). A pistol is easier at that point.
My first thought would be to look for an opening to floor it and get out, or even punch through if I had to. Car is still the best defensive weapon you have unless it is truly blocked or immobilized. If that is the case then you're probably going to have to get clear if they're looking to pull you out, so in that case I would hope that my pistol would give me a little space to get my bigger weapon. It's not like someone will be okay with getting hit because you only have a pistol and not a rifle in that moment...even if they're armed themselves. They'll at least take evasive measures which will hopefully give you a chance to arm up better.

This is all theoretical of course, all this would happen in just a few chaotic seconds and if you're outside and an entire mob is after you, it may just be a matter of time and running out of ammo.

I don't know how much detail something like Google Maps would give you ahead of time but I would at least check it with the traffic setting before heading out to see if there are any hot spots on your route that look like a hangup. Or just do everything you can not to go out if things are heating up.
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Old 08-28-2020, 07:08 PM   #23
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Glock 19 and 29-round mag for car defense

I recently relegated an existing Gen 3 Glock 19 to car duty. Purchased a few Magpul 29 round 9mm mags. I keep one in the pistol and one extra mag. The Magpul mags are more compact than the equivalent Glock mags. I rarely leave it in the car unattended (locked, of course), but if I do, and it were to be stolen, not the end of the world.

I'm not a fan of the rifle-caliber pistol. Nothing personal, just more recoil than I care for compared to a full-size carbine. I am, however, a fan of the pistol caliber carbine. A 9mm AR carbine which takes Glock mags and a 12-gauge pump are my first choices for home defense.
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Old 08-28-2020, 07:47 PM   #24
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-snip-

I'm not a fan of the rifle-caliber pistol. Nothing personal, just more recoil than I care for compared to a full-size carbine. I am, however, a fan of the pistol caliber carbine. A 9mm AR carbine which takes Glock mags and a 12-gauge pump are my first choices for home defense.
If you are happy with a 12-gauge, you are not intolerant of recoil! And a rifle-caliber pistol can be a *****-cat to shoot. (I can't believe the auto censor just asterisked that out!!!). Okay then but saying, ". . . a kitty-cat to shoot" doesn't sound quite right.

The pistol below is .223, 10.5" barrel (most can mfg's want at least a 10" barrel as it's otherwise too hard on the blast baffle).
BTW, if you've ever shot a 12 gauge or .223 in an enclosed space, you'll be glad to have the can, which also reduces secondary recoil and muzzle flash

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Old 08-28-2020, 07:49 PM   #25
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I recently addressed my car and travel issues with a 10mm twist. I have a Glock29 and a CMMG Banshee 300 with an 8” barrel. It is outfitted with an Aimpoint PRO and pretty accurate inside 75 yards.

The great thing is that they both use the same magazines! I have an oversized bag that accommodates the Banshee (24”) and typically 3-30 rd magazines and a few 25 rd mags in the bag. The Glock29 is holstered with a 10rd magazine and a spare in the off-hand back pocket.

I also have a 9mm MPX and P229 Sig choices, that are easier to backpack carry, but that shared magazine compatibility is a real plus in my mind.
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Last edited by 93vpmod; 08-29-2020 at 07:22 AM.
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Old 08-29-2020, 05:56 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumper View Post
If you are happy with a 12-gauge, you are not intolerant of recoil! And a rifle-caliber pistol can be a *****-cat to shoot. (I can't believe the auto censor just asterisked that out!!!). Okay then but saying, ". . . a kitty-cat to shoot" doesn't sound quite right.

The pistol below is .223, 10.5" barrel (most can mfg's want at least a 10" barrel as it's otherwise too hard on the blast baffle).
BTW, if you've ever shot a 12 gauge or .223 in an enclosed space, you'll be glad to have the can, which also reduces secondary recoil and muzzle flash

I agree it's weird that I prefer a 12 gauge over a rifle caliber pistol. I guess I just prefer a stock to spread out the recoil. I have a Shockwave in 20 that I don't really care for either. Depending on the election, I might Form 1 it and put a regular stock on it.

Completely agree about the can. I keep a Rugged Obsidian on the 9mm AR.
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Old 08-29-2020, 06:50 AM   #27
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To be honest, this thread has opened so many scenarios that I am rethinking everything in terms of what I would want to have as a first option and perhaps the only option.

A pistol readily accessible and easy to handle is option number one. I have mounts that go on the steering column under the steering wheel. I can put a soft holster on that mount. I can also fasten a holster to the center console. These holsters are sized by what type of firearm you have, not what brand you have. They pretty much work for everything. Plus there is a velcro pocket for extra magazine. There is even a method for you to attach the holster to your belt. That holster can be easily moved, carried back into the house, and used as a nightstand pistol. Very mobile firearm.

A pistol will most likely deter anyone who has the intent on forcefully entering your vehicle. You want to be able to leave the scene so you stay in your vehicle. So, option number one is a pistol easily accessible.

Option number two is that same pistol but with high capacity magazines. As I mentioned, I am rethinking my strategy and thinking about my personal safety and playing scenarios in my mind. No, we can never account for everything and that is why you resolve yourself to expect the unexpected and - be as prepared as you possibly can be. Part of that is I do not want a second firearm and worry about securing it, taking the time to get it, and lose focus of what is going on in that moment. I will have split seconds or no seconds to put down my pistol and reach for a second gun? Very doubtful. Now I would have two firearms unsecured. If I can reach it so can anyone else. That means I would have to hide it out of view which means it may not be readily accessible to me as I would like it to be.

This line of thinking, one firearm with high capacity mags, is why I stopped my sale of my P320 TACOPS. This 9mm pistol comes with 4 21-round magazines. That is some serious firepower. One mag loaded in the firearm with JHP and a spare in the velcro pocket is all I would need. That's 42 rounds. That is enough to get myself out of a compromising situation. I'm talking about a crowd or individuals intent on stopping me or forcing entry into my vehicle. One gun is all I need to concern myself with. Ideally, I would put a red dot sight or a laser on it. This would enable me to sight it in at perhaps 20-25 yards. That is 60-75 feet. Any closer I am still going to hit my target.

I can not plan for some firefight. If I follow that scenario then I would have an AR in the trunk or under the back seat. In the meantime I would have ample cover fire (with that same pistol) and a couple of magazines of 15-21 rounds. Hopefully that is time to reach it. If it is a long range firefight, then I am in the wrong place. I am going to seek cover.

Keeping along with the one gun approach, I have also decided to purchase a 10mm pistol. IF I think I need that punch, then why not try it out. I am going with a 10mm because I can still find ammo at a decent price anywhere. I just purchased 600 rounds of Winchester 10mm FMJ (Remington UMC Handgun Ammo - 10mm - 180 Grain - 50 rounds - $27.99). I will be looking for some JHP as well.

The firearm I selected is the Springfield XDM 10mm. No, I have never shot this model or brand or round. I selected this particular model because it has two magazines of 15-rounds each. That is 30 rounds of punch. So I will spend time with it and the P320 TACOPS. At best, I now have two pistols packing a lot of punch and can decide which role each will play. Since I have other P320's as well, I can use those as my comparison model and keep the TACOPS unfired. At worst, I don't like the Springfield and I resell it.

Option one and option two, for me, boils down to one firearm of substantial capacity and ammo to get me out of an immediate threat.

This is a very good and needed topic for us to have. We have to plan and plan/think about putting yourself in to various situations and realistically ask yourself what you would do. Literally practice those scenarios by being in your vehicle, laying out your firearms, and look at what are the IDEAL options for you. You may also come to the conclusion that you need only one firearm to worry about in any given situation.

If any of you actually read all of this, thank you for taking the time. I would love to hear your thought process(es) as well.
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Old 08-29-2020, 07:02 AM   #28
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Yeah having a second firearm that you can easily reach is definitely a concern in that so can someone else. As I said earlier it's a nightmare scenario any way you look at it. By that reckoning I agree with the focus being on what you can control and keep with you from the outset....and in that sense bigger more powerful calibers are nice but capacity is king.

IF you can't somehow create an opening to drive/bust the heck out of there, what can one do? You get out of the car the mob will come after you. Even if you have a gun and take some down, they're probably going to keep coming (look at Kenosha) and when you run out...how fast can you run and for how long? I get a gout flareup every now and then which means I won't be able to run anywhere.

So short of having a heavily armored car, you're going to be at a severe disadvantage once immobilized. It might just come down to how many you take with you before the inevitable. So do whatever you can not to get into that situation, although there may be no way of avoiding it with prior warning.
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Old 08-29-2020, 07:35 AM   #29
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So short of having a heavily armored car, you're gong to be at a severe disadvantage once immobilized. It might just come down to how many you take with you before the inevitable. So do whatever you can not to get into that situation, although there may be no way of avoiding it with prior warning.
Totally in agreement with all your statements.

The worst case is you have to leave the shelter of your vehicle to escape. If that is the situation, time is of the essence. Having 30 - 40 rounds with you is going to open things up as people scatter. If you HAVE TO leave your vehicle, you do not want to be concerned that you are placing a second firearm at their disposal. Sorry, I won't be able to run so I will have to stand my ground. Ideally I can seek shelter in a building or structure. If someone in the crowd has a firearm (chances are they will) then its going to be a life or death situation.

I am also leaning toward a laser vs. optic. Putting a dot on someone is going to get everyone's attention and that alone will be a major psychological deterrent. Everyone watches the movies and know that that dot means.
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Old 08-29-2020, 07:44 AM   #30
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I am also leaning toward a laser vs. optic. Putting a dot on someone is going to get everyone's attention and that alone will be a major psychological deterrent. Everyone watches the movies and know that that dot means.
Honestly, I don't think that will make much more difference than just the mere presence of the gun itself. By the time you do have to get it ready, it's on like Donkey Kong and everyone knows you have it. So far none of these melees have worked out like the movies...people chase down people with guns, nothing is clean or orderly, complete ****storm of chaos. I just don't think a laser...which will be shaking all over the place so questionable if people will even see it....will make someone not attack you when they would have without one. And if you're trying to steady the laser and make sure someone sees it, you might miss the brick or wrench that's being thrown at your head....or the animal sneaking up behind you with a skateboard.

"BACK AWAY!!! STAY BACK AND NO-ONE GETS HURT!!!" with weapon at the ready. That's all the warning that you'll likely be able to offer, and if it doesn't work, it's on.

Only thing I can see a laser helping with is you have to take shots from the hip or if not being able to shoulder well/at all. But that's for you not for them....and still it's going to be all over the place.

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