California Governor Signs Law to Limit Shootings by Police - Page 3 - SIG Talk
SIG Talk Gun Forum

California Governor Signs Law to Limit Shootings by Police

This is a discussion on California Governor Signs Law to Limit Shootings by Police within the News forums, part of the SIG Talk category; Originally Posted by dilznik Am I the only one who likes this law? It's the only thing Newscum has signed that didn't make me want ...


Go Back   SIG Talk > SIG Talk > News

News News Articles that SIG Talk Members wish to share and from the firearms industry.

Like Tree132Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-28-2019, 09:18 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
Jedi5150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Central California
Posts: 2,434
Likes Received 2797
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilznik View Post
Am I the only one who likes this law? It's the only thing Newscum has signed that didn't make me want to slap him. Maybe now the police in this state will stop killing people that don't need to be killed.
If they don't want to be held to the same minimum ROE standards as a 19 year old infantryman in Iraq then they should find a different job for their psychopathic outlets. If they are in fear of their lives every time they encounter citizens, they should find a new line of work.
You have a misunderstanding of the new law, and you have a disturbing anti-LE attitude that is not typically seen on this forum. I see you've contributed very little to this forum over the past few years, and if cop-bashing is your thing, I hope you continue to limit your posts to a few a year (as far as I'm concerned, don't let the door hit you on the way out). This isn't the Madhouse subforum. Trolls have no place here.

Nothing in this law holds cops to the same RoE as an infantryman. That's nothing more than absurd trolling. This new law is far more extreme than than any other lethal force policy in the nation, for LE or military. As I explained, this new law means cops can be held criminally liable for a shooting that would be normally ruled complete self defense, if it was done by a private citizen or a soldier, or a cop in any other state.

Your comments about cops in general are derogatory, acting as if they are afraid of everyone they contact, and you imply that CA cops shoot people randomly and often without justification. CA cops have pretty much the highest reputation for professionalism in any state in the country. There is a reason that California POST certificates have reciprocity in just about every state (if not every other state), and CA does not accept anyone else's. CA sets the industry standard for LE (and all other public safety), that all other states then follow. We were doing "21st Century Policing" for decades before Obama rolled it out as a "pilot program" to the rest of the country.

Naming a couple isolated anecdotal incidents as the basis for your mistrust and disdain for all CA LE officers is just moronic...a state with 39 million people. I've heard cop bashing on many forums over the years, and I can say with complete honesty that your comment is the first I've ever read about someone slamming CA cops in specific. I'm genuinely flabbergasted. "Psychopathic outlets", about a group of people who put themselves on the line to protect people like you every day? You're disgusting. Today I dealt with a guy who was threatening to shoot up a college. What exactly did you do today to contribute to your community?
P229R, trebor44, Gisfan and 4 others like this.

Last edited by Jedi5150; 08-28-2019 at 09:30 PM.
Jedi5150 is offline  
Register

Welcome to the SIG Talk Forum dedicated to SIG Sauer Pistols and SIG Sauer Rifles.

We welcome everyone and the community is free to join so register today and become part of the SIG Talk Forum!

Old 08-28-2019, 10:24 PM   #32
Senior Member
 
Jedi5150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Central California
Posts: 2,434
Likes Received 2797
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyConley View Post
My understanding is that California does not have the "No retreat" law which most likely means they have the version we had prior to No Retreat which had the "When a reasonable Person reasonability believes their life or the life or another is in jeopardy..." language. If so, yes they have a greater restriction.
California has no "duty to retreat" for either it's citizens or peace officers. And since this discussion is about peace officers, here's the specific law that covers it, 835aPC:

"835a.
Any peace officer who has reasonable cause to believe that the person to be arrested has committed a public offense may use reasonable force to effect the arrest, to prevent escape or to overcome resistance.

A peace officer who makes or attempts to make an arrest need not retreat or desist from his efforts by reason of the resistance or threatened resistance of the person being arrested; nor shall such officer be deemed an aggressor or lose his right to self-defense by the use of reasonable force to effect the arrest or to prevent escape or to overcome resistance."

And for anyone wondering, lethal force is considered one type of making an arrest.
trebor44, Gisfan and Jack#9 like this.

Last edited by Jedi5150; 08-28-2019 at 10:27 PM.
Jedi5150 is offline  
Old 08-29-2019, 05:33 AM   #33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 432
Likes Received 296
Want to reduce Police shootings? Have ALL Citizens FOLLOW THE LAWFUL ORDERS OF POLICE. Most Citizens are shot by Police while either committing a Crime or NOT following lawful orders of Police. >>> In the event that the Police Officer is acting Unlawfully or inappropriately - file a complaint against them....AFTER complying with the Officers request.<<<. How can you expect Police to arrive “on a scene” and within seconds - accurately assess the situation 100% of the time?? No amount of training or experience = perfection.
Chuckbuck is offline  
 
Old 08-29-2019, 02:51 PM   #34
Senior Member
 
JBnTx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 821
Likes Received 1334
If I was a cop in California and I saw a "minority" committing a crime,
I'd just mind my own business and continue on.

If police officers all across this country did that...........
JBnTx is offline  
Old 09-02-2019, 11:22 AM   #35
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: High Desert Foothills
Posts: 1,746
Likes Received 1247
What is "Necessary" now can be completely different later - especially when that determination is subject to the caprices of a third party. It is open-ended and extends adjudication into the realm of the perceptions and alternate realities imagined by a third party at a later date. The third party's perceptions are influenced by their life experiences and upbringing, cultural background - and yes, prejudices.

"Reasonable" is a less stringent standard. If a reaction/action is "reasonable", it can be explained and the actions justified in the context of the totality of the immediate circumstances of the incident.

Red Flag laws are the harbinger of Thought Police and the Total Surveillance Society, as foretold by Ayan Rand. With the current, ubiquitous adoption of "smart phones" and subscription to "social media" by societies world-wide, the population of the world has willingly invited Big Brother into their lives... adding "Necessary" to the Justification for the Use of Force (Deadly or otherwise) equation is the Leap Big Brother has lusted after to dismantle the Constitution. If it and Red Flag laws are allowed to stand, only Government will have the power of Life and Death, and the Bill of Rights will be swept into the dustbin of history.

Last edited by Skyviking; 09-02-2019 at 11:33 AM.
Skyviking is offline  
Old 09-02-2019, 12:53 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
ca survivor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,526
Likes Received 1326
Nothing really surprises me, out of komemierfornia politicians.
ca survivor is offline  
Old 09-09-2019, 07:30 AM   #37
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 3
Likes Received 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi5150 View Post
You have a misunderstanding of the new law, and you have a disturbing anti-LE attitude that is not typically seen on this forum. I see you've contributed very little to this forum over the past few years, and if cop-bashing is your thing, I hope you continue to limit your posts to a few a year (as far as I'm concerned, don't let the door hit you on the way out). This isn't the Madhouse subforum. Trolls have no place here.

Nothing in this law holds cops to the same RoE as an infantryman. That's nothing more than absurd trolling. This new law is far more extreme than than any other lethal force policy in the nation, for LE or military. As I explained, this new law means cops can be held criminally liable for a shooting that would be normally ruled complete self defense, if it was done by a private citizen or a soldier, or a cop in any other state.

Your comments about cops in general are derogatory, acting as if they are afraid of everyone they contact, and you imply that CA cops shoot people randomly and often without justification. CA cops have pretty much the highest reputation for professionalism in any state in the country. There is a reason that California POST certificates have reciprocity in just about every state (if not every other state), and CA does not accept anyone else's. CA sets the industry standard for LE (and all other public safety), that all other states then follow. We were doing "21st Century Policing" for decades before Obama rolled it out as a "pilot program" to the rest of the country.

Naming a couple isolated anecdotal incidents as the basis for your mistrust and disdain for all CA LE officers is just moronic...a state with 39 million people. I've heard cop bashing on many forums over the years, and I can say with complete honesty that your comment is the first I've ever read about someone slamming CA cops in specific. I'm genuinely flabbergasted. "Psychopathic outlets", about a group of people who put themselves on the line to protect people like you every day? You're disgusting. Today I dealt with a guy who was threatening to shoot up a college. What exactly did you do today to contribute to your community?
Careful, youre going to injure your rotator cuff patting yourself like that. ease up on the cool aid, your so-called 21st century policing cause me and countless other cops endless headaches for years and may still, i no longer serve. I do agree that Rodney King and MANY other got 21st century beatings and I REALLY enjoyed sitting through countless lectures on the subject after you pros showed your stuff. Don't know how long you've been on but since 9/11 it is sickening to see the disgrace that passes for police work all over this country. Witness endless people with video cameras being told they MUST ID or be arrested when absolutely no RAS or PC exists. The usual words begin with "In this day and age..." in order to try to put down rights of citizens. Yes we were attacked but it isn't new, terrorists have been around for ever and giving up even a single freedom or right is the same as handing them the win. Get a grip and a job you can handle.
lime ricky is offline  
Old 09-11-2019, 09:13 AM   #38
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: So. U.S.
Posts: 67
Likes Received 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve View Post
Glad I'm retired.

My father is a twice retired LEO. When he was with the city PD he retired two years early due to a politically minded chief who would not back his men and women.
His second time around my father was a Chief for the county Sheriff's Dept. Which ended up being a much more rewarding and fulfilling job.

If you don't have anyone looking out for the officers, who would want to subject themself to such a job? Politicians should stop pandering for votes and get on with the job of keeping EVERYONE safe.
German Sigman Freud is offline  
Old 09-11-2019, 09:28 AM   #39
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: So. U.S.
Posts: 67
Likes Received 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi5150 View Post
We've already been seeing that trend, over the last 5 years. Fewer applicants, and the quality of the applicants is gradually getting lower as well. Don't get me wrong, there are some excellent new recruits out there as well, but the average is slipping.
And within the ranks of Departments struggling to fill their depleted rosters, you get more of a chance of corrupted applicants or applicants with anger issues. And guess what happens then??? Maybe more shootings and fatalities?!

Cali politicians never cease to amaze me with their pandering, knee jerk, emotion based stupidity.
Case in point, many years ago Cali determined that there had to be flame retardant in mattresses. That legislation spread to the nation.
Fast forward to a few years back, now they've determined that the flame retardant additives cause cancer. So now... No flame retardants.
Hey Cali! How about your politicians doing some hard research before making up stupid laws.
Oh if I only had a nickel for every Cali Politico's faux pas related to firearms...
German Sigman Freud is offline  
Old 09-11-2019, 09:34 AM   #40
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: So. U.S.
Posts: 67
Likes Received 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyviking View Post
What is "Necessary" now can be completely different later - especially when that determination is subject to the caprices of a third party. It is open-ended and extends adjudication into the realm of the perceptions and alternate realities imagined by a third party at a later date. The third party's perceptions are influenced by their life experiences and upbringing, cultural background - and yes, prejudices.

"Reasonable" is a less stringent standard. If a reaction/action is "reasonable", it can be explained and the actions justified in the context of the totality of the immediate circumstances of the incident.

Red Flag laws are the harbinger of Thought Police and the Total Surveillance Society, as foretold by Ayan Rand. With the current, ubiquitous adoption of "smart phones" and subscription to "social media" by societies world-wide, the population of the world has willingly invited Big Brother into their lives... adding "Necessary" to the Justification for the Use of Force (Deadly or otherwise) equation is the Leap Big Brother has lusted after to dismantle the Constitution. If it and Red Flag laws are allowed to stand, only Government will have the power of Life and Death, and the Bill of Rights will be swept into the dustbin of history.
Can I get an Amen???!!!!!!!!
German Sigman Freud is offline  
Old 09-12-2019, 09:22 PM   #41
Senior Member
 
Jedi5150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Central California
Posts: 2,434
Likes Received 2797
Quote:
Originally Posted by lime ricky View Post
Careful, youre going to injure your rotator cuff patting yourself like that. ease up on the cool aid, your so-called 21st century policing cause me and countless other cops endless headaches for years and may still, i no longer serve. I do agree that Rodney King and MANY other got 21st century beatings and I REALLY enjoyed sitting through countless lectures on the subject after you pros showed your stuff. Don't know how long you've been on but since 9/11 it is sickening to see the disgrace that passes for police work all over this country. Witness endless people with video cameras being told they MUST ID or be arrested when absolutely no RAS or PC exists. The usual words begin with "In this day and age..." in order to try to put down rights of citizens. Yes we were attacked but it isn't new, terrorists have been around for ever and giving up even a single freedom or right is the same as handing them the win. Get a grip and a job you can handle.
You can read it how you like, but the truth is that a lot of states are quite backwards in policing, and have incredibly low standards of selection and training. You and I can both rattle off a list of agencies that have a famously bad reputation for how they handle their policing. Your cool-aid comment had me chuckling. Using 21st Century Policing as an example of being ahead of the curve is not the same as telling you my personal opinion of it. Rodney King? Dude, were you ever actually a cop? That’s your example of California policing? Tell me what state you worked in and I’ll give you links to 5 articles discussing excessive force cases there.

The good ol' days weren't all that great in policing. A lot of corruption and"blue wall" took place that now has no place to hide...loyalty to your beat partner being more important than ethics and duty. You'll never hear me say that all change has been for the better, but it certainly hasn't all been for the worse, either. The person I was quoting was speaking in general terms, so I replied in general terms. I never said every cop in California is a rock star, and every cop in Alabama is an inbred slug. There are good and bad everywhere, but I wouldn't have thought that needed to be pointed out in order to keep someone's pride intact. My error.

"Get a grip and a job you can handle." I must have really hurt your feelings.

Last edited by Jedi5150; 09-12-2019 at 10:32 PM.
Jedi5150 is offline  
Old 09-13-2019, 09:03 PM   #42
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: So. U.S.
Posts: 67
Likes Received 53
He's going to have cops second guessing... that can be a deadly mistake. I hope that no officers make that mistake. What an idiot move on the Governor's part.

"Momma always said, 'stupid is as stupid does!'"
- Forrest Gump

My sympathies to all those trapped within the gulag known as Commiefornia.
German Sigman Freud is offline  
Old 09-14-2019, 07:40 AM   #43
Senior Member
 
dplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,106
Likes Received 4021
Well, if criminals won't obey laws, lets make laws aimed at those who are sworn to uphold them. This makes perfect sense...in CALIFORNIA!
steve and jorkvilleyoe like this.
dplay is offline  
Old 09-30-2019, 02:29 PM   #44
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 13
Likes Received 4
I guess Ca really needs a law limiting crimes committed by criminals!
davisdanmsp is offline  
Old 12-03-2019, 03:00 PM   #45
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 82
Likes Received 49
This will work out well..
KDzee is offline  
Reply

  SIG Talk > SIG Talk > News

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Top Gun Sites Top Sites List

Powered by vBulletin 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
Copyright © 2010 - 2020 SIG Talk. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.SIG Talk is a SIG Sauer Firearms enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent SIG Sauer, Inc. of Exeter, NH.