Trijicon sues Holosun for Patent Infringement - Page 4 - SIG Talk
SIG Talk Gun Forum

Trijicon sues Holosun for Patent Infringement

This is a discussion on Trijicon sues Holosun for Patent Infringement within the News forums, part of the SIG Talk category; Originally Posted by CZSIG-Vinny I believe Trijicon's SRO was a response to almost completely loosing market share in USPSA competitive shooting sports to Leupold, SIG, ...


Go Back   SIG Talk > SIG Talk > News

News News Articles that SIG Talk Members wish to share and from the firearms industry.

Like Tree130Likes
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-07-2020, 06:42 AM   #46
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
MoRivera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: CT
Posts: 9,621
Likes Received 9260
Quote:
Originally Posted by CZSIG-Vinny View Post
I believe Trijicon's SRO was a response to almost completely loosing market share in USPSA competitive shooting sports to Leupold, SIG, and Vortex. Looking back to the Nationals in 2018 use of Trijicon's had dropped to ~5%. The tiny RMR reticle window didn't cut it in competition. Kudos to SIG for being among the first gun manufacturers to embrace Red Dot technology, the future as red dots on pistols will become as commonplace as scopes on rifles.

The two companies I really wish would jump into the micro red-dots for micro pistols are Leupold and Vortex. I have optics from both, and they're excellent. Vortex especially I believe could compete head-to-head with Holosun. American owned, Veteran owned and Family owned. My Vortex Venoms were produced in the Philippines. China is not the only place to find good, educated and willing workers!

Meanwhile, contrary to popular myth, Chinese labor costs have risen significantly as their standard of living has risen. Many of the high-tech jobs farmed to China have come back to USA because the labor cost difference is no longer worth the difficulty doing business there with Communists. My friends here in the machine tool industry tell me they can't find enough USA workers to fill all the STEM job openings now. I believe we need to re-invest in our Junior College system here in the US. What we need are schools churning out fewer lawyers, journalists and politicos. and more Science, Technology, Engineering and Math grads!! Sorry about my soap-box rantings. JMHO -Vinny
I wouldn't be surprised if a micro-pistol red dot is in the works from Vortex.

Also just in general, its pretty clear that not EVERYTHING made in China is junk...there are at least a few levels. When we talk about optics from Holosun, Vortex, and Primary arms, we're clearly not talking about the airsoft-quality **** you can get all over eBay or Amazon, etc. They are obviously supervised to be produced to a high level of quality, otherwise they simply would not have lasted in the marketplace the way they have. US/China relations/policy aside (with all due respect), Trijiicon isn't going after Holosun because they make 'junk'. 'Junk' doesn't threaten their place in the market.
CovertCarry and CZSIG-Vinny like this.

Last edited by MoRivera; 08-07-2020 at 06:56 AM.
MoRivera is online now  
Register

Welcome to the SIG Talk Forum dedicated to SIG Sauer Pistols and SIG Sauer Rifles.

We welcome everyone and the community is free to join so register today and become part of the SIG Talk Forum!

Old 08-07-2020, 06:45 AM   #47
Senior Member
 
NorthernMichigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 1,681
Likes Received 1419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twister View Post
Good post, you bring up some good points. People posting on social media want to ďlook the partĒ and donít necessarily need a military grade optic to show off. Perhaps Trijicon should take note but what scares me is the thought of all the optics companies following this business model and those interested in a high quality optics having very little to choose from.

I do disagree that they shouldnít go after holosun though. If they feel like holosun is legitimately stealing technology they canít let that stand. Holosun doesnít need free advertising, cheap **** sells, if it didnít harbor freight would be out of business, lol
I haven't checked into the specs of the stolen patents, it's possible they have a legit case, but I don't think it's actually going to accomplish anything for them. Based on what I have seen, A LOT of companies are infriging on theior patents. Also, Holosun isn't exactly cheap. $400 doesn't strike me as a cheap optic. I don't have any doubt that my Holosun is less durable than a Trijicon, but it has more features and is lighter. The ONLY edge Trijicon has is durability, and for their price I could easily buy two Holosuns that have more features and weigh less.
NorthernMichigan is offline  
Old 08-07-2020, 06:52 AM   #48
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
MoRivera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: CT
Posts: 9,621
Likes Received 9260
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernMichigan View Post
I haven't checked into the specs of the stolen patents, it's possible they have a legit case, but I don't think it's actually going to accomplish anything for them. Based on what I have seen, A LOT of companies are infriging on theior patents. Also, Holosun isn't exactly cheap. $400 doesn't strike me as a cheap optic. I don't have any doubt that my Holosun is less durable than a Trijicon, but it has more features and is lighter. The ONLY edge Trijicon has is durability, and for their price I could easily buy two Holosuns that have more features and weigh less.
I don't think the claim is over any particular technology.....just like when Gibson sued other guitar makers. For Gibson it was over 'consumer confusion' because of the passing resemblance of other guitars to traditional/original Gibson designs...when in reality every guitar-playing fool and their sister knew which was a Gibson and which was a Dean, or an ESP or PRS.

But I could be wrong, maybe there's some sort of emitter tech that Holosun and Trijicon share but Vortex and Leupold or Burris don't. But my guess it's the similarity (sic) in appearance as I alluded to earlier in the thread.

Last edited by MoRivera; 08-07-2020 at 06:57 AM.
MoRivera is online now  
 
Old 08-07-2020, 07:00 AM   #49
Senior Member
 
Twister's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Zegema Beach
Posts: 5,207
Likes Received 6139
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoRivera View Post
Which technology is Holosun stealing that Vortex, Burris, Bushnell, C-more, Leupold, Sig, SightMark, Primary Arms, SHIELD and TruGlo aren't?
I donít know, itís Trijiconís lawsuit, Iím not getting involved lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoRivera View Post
If anything, Trijicon would like to go after all of them, but can only go after Holosun because of a passing resemblance in outer appearance of their 508 red dot to Trijicon's RMR.

And are there any reviews or testimonials that show Holosun products to be ****?
I have no interest in holosun products so I donít watch any reviews based on them plus I used that word in general reference to ďstuffĒ. Your reading to much into it, Iím not saying holosun makes total garbage I just wonít support the government of a country thatís at war with us.
Twister is offline  
Old 08-07-2020, 07:01 AM   #50
Senior Member
 
NorthernMichigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 1,681
Likes Received 1419
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoRivera View Post
But it's also a free market and if you're going to go after someone because you don't like them barking up your tree in the civilian market, then call it what it is.
That's what I think is the very issue though. Trijicon seems to be missing that Holosun isn't "going after their market". Holosun is serving a market that they are failing to serve. Holosun's are for people with less vested interest in their firearm (NOT armed professionals) who don't need something ultra durable.
NorthernMichigan is offline  
Old 08-07-2020, 07:08 AM   #51
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
MoRivera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: CT
Posts: 9,621
Likes Received 9260
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernMichigan View Post
That's what I think is the very issue though. Trijicon seems to be missing that Holosun isn't "going after their market". Holosun is serving a market that they are failing to serve. Holosun's are for people with less vested interest in their firearm (NOT armed professionals) who don't need something ultra durable.
Yep.

I guess we can ask ourselves: should all US Citizens of all social status or income levels have the right to buy an affordable firearm that they can depend their lives on?

If so...shouldn't the same go for optics?

The whole US/China thing (again, with all due respect and understanding) is I feel a much broader issue, and as alluded to before, in Holosun's case we're actually getting a good product. As far as durability, okay I don't see a Holosun being bale to put up with as much as an Aimpoint PRO...but in every torture test I've seen with a Holosun, it's held up fine in conditions that are considerably beyond what I could see having to put one through, even to the extreme. Shock, water, freezing, battery life. I think one's gun would fail...including really nice guns...before the optic did.

Granted this is coming from someone who doesn't have a red dot on carry pistols, only competition ones and on long guns.

Last edited by MoRivera; 08-07-2020 at 07:23 AM.
MoRivera is online now  
Old 08-07-2020, 07:13 AM   #52
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
MoRivera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: CT
Posts: 9,621
Likes Received 9260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twister View Post
I don’t know, it’s Trijicon’s lawsuit, I’m not getting involved lol



I have no interest in holosun products so I don’t watch any reviews based on them plus I used that word in general reference to “stuff”. Your reading to much into it, I’m not saying holosun makes total garbage
Aaah, so what you meant to say was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twister View Post
I do disagree that they shouldn’t go after holosun though. If they feel like holosun is legitimately stealing technology they can’t let that stand. Holosun doesn’t need free advertising, cheap "stuff" sells, if it didn’t harbor freight would be out of business, lol
....got it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Twister View Post
I just won’t support the government of a country that’s at war with us.
And I respect that. But just know that they've earned their place in the market based on their quality along with affordable prices...and to Trijicon, that's most likely what this is about moreso than US vs. Chinese production or even anything technological. If they get a right-leaning judge, maybe they'll push that angle more.

Last edited by MoRivera; 08-07-2020 at 08:37 AM.
MoRivera is online now  
Old 08-07-2020, 07:16 AM   #53
Senior Member
 
CovertCarry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 579
Likes Received 497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twister View Post
I donít know, itís Trijiconís lawsuit, Iím not getting involved lol







I have no interest in holosun products so I donít watch any reviews based on them plus I used that word in general reference to ďstuffĒ. Your reading to much into it, Iím not saying holosun makes total garbage I just wonít support the government of a country thatís at war with us.


Then US companies need to make what people want and can afford. Iím not going to use a cheap plastic RDS on my carry gun because a US company wonít make a good one. Itís been over a year since the 365XL was released and 8 months since Romeo Zeros were originally supposed to have been released. Why are Chinese companies the only ones that saw the demand and acted?
CovertCarry is offline  
Old 08-07-2020, 07:20 AM   #54
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
MoRivera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: CT
Posts: 9,621
Likes Received 9260
Quote:
Originally Posted by CovertCarry View Post
Then US companies need to make what people want and can afford. I’m not going to use a cheap plastic RDS on my carry gun because a US company won’t make a good one. It’s been over a year since the 365XL was released and 8 months since Romeo Zeros were originally supposed to have been released. Why are Chinese companies the only ones that saw the demand and acted?
Well, we can look at it as Western-based companies that acted on it and had them manufactured in China to make them more affordable for Americans of all means.
MoRivera is online now  
Old 08-07-2020, 07:36 AM   #55
Senior Member
 
Twister's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Zegema Beach
Posts: 5,207
Likes Received 6139
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernMichigan View Post
Also, Holosun isn't exactly cheap. $400 doesn't strike me as a cheap optic..
Wow I thought theyíd be cheaper than that. I bought my last RMR for under $400 and SRO for under $500 but admittedly I donít buy anything unless itís on sale.
Twister is offline  
Old 08-07-2020, 07:44 AM   #56
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 85
Likes Received 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoRivera View Post
As for buying American, I just think there are many other areas of consumership that would make a much bigger difference.
If you're going to support communist Chinese who've openly declared war on your country, who kill 50,000 Americans per year, are committing 2 genocides - in the name of wanting things less expensive, that a serious moral issue.
challer61 is offline  
Old 08-07-2020, 07:48 AM   #57
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
MoRivera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: CT
Posts: 9,621
Likes Received 9260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twister View Post
Wow I thought theyíd be cheaper than that. I bought my last RMR for under $400 and SRO for under $500 but admittedly I donít buy anything unless itís on sale.
Yeah Holosun's are what I'd classify as more 'mid-priced' amongst the more affordable optics. Their pistol red dots cost more than Vortex units. THey're not the sub-100 airlift-quality no-name stuff, or even like the Bushnell TRS-25.

Also, something like the Holosun 507c features a circle dot reticle AND solar-power capability, neither of which any Trijicon pistol red dot offers as far as I know. They also offer it in the tube-style red dots whereas Aimpoint does not.
MoRivera is online now  
Old 08-07-2020, 07:50 AM   #58
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
MoRivera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: CT
Posts: 9,621
Likes Received 9260
Quote:
Originally Posted by challer61 View Post
If you're going to support communist Chinese who've openly declared war on your country, who kill 50,000 Americans per year, are committing 2 genocides - in the name of wanting things less expensive, that a serious moral issue.
Yes, but I would assume it goes much deeper and broader than a red-dot company, though. And again, Trijicon's lawsuit isn't about that either....they'd probably do the same if they were made in Mexico or Arkansas but still priced that way at that quality.

Whether or not Trijicon will take the opportunity to somehow exploit that in their favor is anyone's guess....as is whether or not Trijiicon actually sources its parts, circuit boards, buttons, screws, batteries, packaging and office equipment/supplies from non-Chinese producers as well.

Last edited by MoRivera; 08-07-2020 at 08:31 AM.
MoRivera is online now  
Old 08-07-2020, 08:41 AM   #59
Senior Member
 
bumper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Minden, NV
Posts: 8,016
Likes Received 14382
Quote:
Originally Posted by CovertCarry View Post
Then US companies need to make what people want and can afford. Iím not going to use a cheap plastic RDS on my carry gun because a US company wonít make a good one. Itís been over a year since the 365XL was released and 8 months since Romeo Zeros were originally supposed to have been released. Why are Chinese companies the only ones that saw the demand and acted?
Speaking of Romeo Zeros, where do you suppose those, like all the Romeo's, will be manufactured?
bumper is offline  
Old 08-07-2020, 08:43 AM   #60
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
MoRivera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: CT
Posts: 9,621
Likes Received 9260
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumper View Post
Speaking of Romeo Zeros, where do you suppose those, like all the Romeo's, will be manufactured?
Well so far, it's the same place Holosuns, Vortex's and cel phones are.
MoRivera is online now  
Closed Thread

  SIG Talk > SIG Talk > News


Search tags for this page

holosun lawsuit

,
trijicon going after holosun
,
trijicon holosun
,
trijicon holosun patent
,
trijicon suing sig
Click on a term to search for related topics.

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Top Gun Sites Top Sites List

Powered by vBulletin 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
Copyright © 2010 - 2020 SIG Talk. All rights reserved.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.SIG Talk is a SIG Sauer Firearms enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent SIG Sauer, Inc. of Exeter, NH.