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NY State AG suing to dissolve NRA

This is a discussion on NY State AG suing to dissolve NRA within the News forums, part of the SIG Talk category; Originally Posted by RoyConley As to Remington, selling guns that go bang when the safety is on did drive a number of "Private" individuals to ...


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Old 08-17-2020, 05:45 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by RoyConley View Post
As to Remington, selling guns that go bang when the safety is on did drive a number of "Private" individuals to take them to court. On a personal note, I had one of those sometimes safeties.
ROY - Agree there were some problems with safeties (700 rifles?) and Remington quality was going downhill for years, profits were also declining, lawsuits were a regular part of their life.... but that wasn’t the litigation expenses that caved in Remington - it was the post Sandy Hook lawsuits and “Bushmaster Marketing/advertisements” that Courts ruled Remington could be sued over. Regardless that the “illegal actions” were taken by one individual — the manufacturer was held accountable. Remingtons slim profits were heavily depleted over the past few years by Legal fees - defending itself from lawsuits. My opinion - you don’t need to “win” the lawsuit in order to WIN your objective: Destroy the Company.....the Legal fees and damage to brand reputation (over time) will be enough to take marginally profitable companies “Under”.
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Old 08-17-2020, 06:16 AM   #47
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Mixed feelings here. The NRA IS doing something. Are they doing everything they could with the money they have? Probably not. Could a "better" organization do more with the money the NRA is receiving? Probably also.

Al Capone was brought down by the IRS. If the NRA is not taking/in spending money appropriately for the rules setup for non-profits, then they should get slapped for it. My personal opinion is that I'd be fine if the NRA blew their ENTIRE wad on this election as a big middle finger to the gun control folks and then dissolved or re-orged as an educational group. GOA or SAF could/would pick up the slack over the next several years. It would be preferable in my opinion than the idea that we continue to contribute millions of dollars yearly to get thousands of dollars worth of value out of an organization.
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Old 08-17-2020, 06:31 AM   #48
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ROY - Agree there were some problems with safeties (700 rifles?) and Remington quality was going downhill for years, profits were also declining, lawsuits were a regular part of their life.... but that wasn’t the litigation expenses that caved in Remington - it was the post Sandy Hook lawsuits and “Bushmaster Marketing/advertisements” that Courts ruled Remington could be sued over. Regardless that the “illegal actions” were taken by one individual – the manufacturer was held accountable. Remingtons slim profits were heavily depleted over the past few years by Legal fees - defending itself from lawsuits. My opinion - you don’t need to “win” the lawsuit in order to WIN your objective: Destroy the Company.....the Legal fees and damage to brand reputation (over time) will be enough to take marginally profitable companies “Under”.
That's right, I had forgotten about the bushmaster's ads for thinning out the human heard. Both were bad business decisions that individuals attacked them for, not Governmental entities.

While I and many others would hate to see the NRA go, a lot of us would be glad if the NY AG got ride of Wayne and cronies.

I remember when the NRA was promoting the shooting sports. Not so much today. I live in the Atlanta area and finding an NRA pistol match is not easy. Now IDPA, USPSA or Steel Challenge, how many do you want to shoot per week.
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Old 08-17-2020, 06:50 AM   #49
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As far as I am concerned the NRA can go the way of the buggy whip. They have been much more of a public relations representative for gun manufacturers.

I prefer the organizations in the link with my favorite two GOA and The Second Amendment Foundation

https://www.motherjones.com/politics...on-day-groups/

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Old 08-17-2020, 12:33 PM   #50
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ROY - Agree there were some problems with safeties (700 rifles?) and Remington quality was going downhill for years, profits were also declining, lawsuits were a regular part of their life.... but that wasn’t the litigation expenses that caved in Remington - it was the post Sandy Hook lawsuits and “Bushmaster Marketing/advertisements” that Courts ruled Remington could be sued over. Regardless that the “illegal actions” were taken by one individual – the manufacturer was held accountable. Remingtons slim profits were heavily depleted over the past few years by Legal fees - defending itself from lawsuits. My opinion - you don’t need to “win” the lawsuit in order to WIN your objective: Destroy the Company.....the Legal fees and damage to brand reputation (over time) will be enough to take marginally profitable companies “Under”.
The City of Huntsville, AL didn't help them when they made Remington pay back economic incentive monies when they left the communist state of Connecticut for Huntsville when they weren't welcome any longer in Conn. Huntsville rightfully asked for millions back and got it for not honoring their employment promises. Still hate to see a gun company go broke. Thank you know who....
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Old 08-17-2020, 12:37 PM   #51
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If the allegations are true the guilty parties should go to jail and return all the money. The board should hire a new director. If board members are implicated they should be replaced by the membership. Dissolving the organization would further harm the defrauded members.

The NRA is by far the most powerful gun lobby. Their power is only partially the dollars. The real power is in the membership. Politicians listen because the NRA can elect you or defeat you by getting out the vote.

The NRA also is still the largest gun safety organization. Are all their certified instructors excellent? No, but many are and their classes are the most widespread and most accessible to the general public.
I'm having trouble understanding why a local government goon DA has anything to do with a local business and their money. But then Nooo York isn't known for much business acumen, witness, AOC and Amazon. She runs off thousands of 100K plus jobs but the allegedly majored in economics. Oh, wait, that was at Boston College.
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Old 08-17-2020, 01:12 PM   #52
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I'm having trouble understanding why a local government goon DA has anything to do with a local business and their money. But then Nooo York isn't known for much business acumen, witness, AOC and Amazon. She runs off thousands of 100K plus jobs but the allegedly majored in economics. Oh, wait, that was at Boston College.
She is not local. She is the AG for the state and the NRA is a NY State Corporation

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Old 08-17-2020, 02:02 PM   #53
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I'm having trouble understanding why a local government goon DA has anything to do with a local business and their money. But then Nooo York isn't known for much business acumen, witness, AOC and Amazon. She runs off thousands of 100K plus jobs but the allegedly majored in economics. Oh, wait, that was at Boston College.
The NRA is a non-profit organization, as such there are explicit standards all non-profits have to comply with. One deals with how they spend their money (The money is held in trust for specific things.) in accordance with the founding charter, or whatever it is called in NY. And it seems to be apparent from the charges, and confirmation of those charges by past board members and employees, that money has been going where it is not allowed to go.

I am just hoping the board can cut a deal and settle this with the AG's office. But to do so would appear to required Wayne to be removed, the board replaced and all of those individuals forbidden from being associated with a NY based non-profit forever.
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Last edited by RoyConley; 08-17-2020 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 08-17-2020, 02:36 PM   #54
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I live in upstate New York it's a beautiful place to live but it's becoming increasingly more difficult. Taxes liberal policies nanny state a Governor making law decisions like he's the Emperor of the Empire State. But hey all the nursing home patients he killed putting Covid patients in the homes was Trumps fault (or so he says) It's Trumps fault for the violence in NYC too according to the crooked mayor DeBlasio.

Lived here my whole life to late to move at this point oh well maybe Trump will actually take NY this election my conservative vote is always cast and always wasted due to the Deep Blue NY libtards.


Sorry I know where not supposed to be political on the forum but enough is enough!
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Old 08-17-2020, 04:57 PM   #55
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The NRA is a non-profit organization, as such there are explicit standards all non-profits have to comply with. One deals with how they spend their money (The money is held in trust for specific things.) in accordance with the founding charter, or whatever it is called in NY. And it seems to be apparent from the charges, and confirmation of those charges by past board members and employees, that money has been going where it is not allowed to go.

I am just hoping the board can cut a deal and settle this with the AG's office. But to do so would appear to required Wayne to be removed, the board replaced and all of those individuals forbidden from being associated with a NY based non-profit forever.
ROY——I don’t believe the N.Y. AGs end game is just to remove Wayne or the NRA Board ....I think they want to drag this out and require the NRA to dedicate resources & Legal $$$ for YEARs, damage the NRAs reputation (if that’s possible) and weaken their influence as much as possible. They won’t be receptive to “reaching an agreement”. However, I question if I’m expecting too much from the NRA because I’m NOT surprised or upset by the allegations against Wayne: that he “misappropriated $$ and went on lavish spending sprees etc...” Of course he did, they ALL do - wish they didn’t - but every NON Profit misappropriated funds - to some degree, it seems to be the “Norm”. Get rid of Wayne and replace him with “whom”- Jesus ?? I am Not impressed with Wayne, assume someone else could do a better Job and would be fine if he’s replaced for That Reason...but the chance of getting someone else and expecting the “misappropriation of funds” to improve seems UNlikely. Am I setting my sights too low? or too accepting of bad behavior ? I guess so, and admit I’m WRONG to think this way....but I’m Not alone either.
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Old 08-17-2020, 05:14 PM   #56
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The City of Huntsville, AL didn't help them when they made Remington pay back economic incentive monies when they left the communist state of Connecticut for Huntsville when they weren't welcome any longer in Conn. Huntsville rightfully asked for millions back and got it for not honoring their employment promises. Still hate to see a gun company go broke. Thank you know who....
Its impossible for a manufacturing company that was founded in CT and had scores of skilled workers at its disposal to move out of state and try to get
hillbillies up to speed. Huntsville failed Remington in that it could not supply skilled help.
Remington should sue Huntsville for false promise.
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Old 08-18-2020, 01:33 AM   #57
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ROY––I don’t believe the N.Y. AGs end game is just to remove Wayne or the NRA Board ....I think they want to drag this out and require the NRA to dedicate resources & Legal $$$ for YEARs, damage the NRAs reputation (if that’s possible) and weaken their influence as much as possible. They won’t be receptive to “reaching an agreement”. However, I question if I’m expecting too much from the NRA because I’m NOT surprised or upset by the allegations against Wayne: that he “misappropriated $$ and went on lavish spending sprees etc...” Of course he did, they ALL do - wish they didn’t - but every NON Profit misappropriated funds - to some degree, it seems to be the “Norm”. Get rid of Wayne and replace him with “whom”- Jesus ?? I am Not impressed with Wayne, assume someone else could do a better Job and would be fine if he’s replaced for That Reason...but the chance of getting someone else and expecting the “misappropriation of funds” to improve seems UNlikely. Am I setting my sights too low? or too accepting of bad behavior ? I guess so, and admit I’m WRONG to think this way....but I’m Not alone either.
All actions by AG's and DA's can end up in a courtroom where 12 citizens make a decision. This 12 common folk thing trends to remove the politics BS if it exist. We have seen several politically connected individuals lately end up in said courtrooms and while the claim of "Its all Politics" has been screamed to high heaven, juries have said guilty.

If Wayne and company are innocent, go to trial. There is a saying among attorneys, if the Facts are on your side pound on the facts, if the Law is on your side pound on the law, if neither are on your side pound on the table and yell.

Have you heard anything from the NRA about the Law or Facts in this instance? I haven't.

As a retired financial auditor I must say that everyone does not have thieves at the top of their organizations. However, those that have some form of an imperial CEO are very much suspect and if that CEO is involved in the picking of his/her board you are just asking for trouble.

Finally, we have a lot of very good people in the shooting sports/hunting arena that are more than capable of running the NRA. Set a maximum of 4 years lifetime in the job and have the board hire.

Have a good day.
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Old 08-18-2020, 02:23 AM   #58
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I said it much earlier in this thread.
The entire Obama 8 years, the IRS had an entire floor at NRA headquarters. Still did since.
They audited everything.
Had they found something, why wait to now to bring charges? Obama would have brought charges then.

I am a member of Friends of NRA, and have attended grant meetings.
They are super careful, to cross every T and dot every I.

I have met, and talked with Wayne 7 times.
While I think new leadership might be a very good thing.
I have seen personally that Wayne is tireless working for the NRA. He also works for the committee, and they can't be all bought off.

They do see different approaches, and break into sub groups pulling this or that way.

I also know ANYONE in charge will be vilified endlessly. That is how the left works. Endless charges, and character assignation.
A whole lot of the right buys into that character assassination every time.

The 2nd Amendment is focused on Court cases, and is a complement to the NRA.

The GOA is a good organization, but simply is not a big player.
When do you ever hear the left talk about the GOA ?
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Old 08-18-2020, 03:38 AM   #59
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I said it much earlier in this thread.
The entire Obama 8 years, the IRS had an entire floor at NRA headquarters. Still did since.
They audited everything.
Had they found something, why wait to now to bring charges? Obama would have brought charges then.
The IRS ONLY, I repeat ONLY, audits for compliance with Federal Tax Code. Did NRA file their Federal Tax return properly? If an IRS agent found a dead body in the file room no where in their work papers would it be even noted.

The NY AG is looking at NY State Non-Profit laws and possibly NY State Tax Code for Non-Profits. If NY AG looks at the NRA's Federal Tax return it would be just to insure similar reporting.
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Old 08-18-2020, 05:27 AM   #60
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All actions by AG's and DA's can end up in a courtroom where 12 citizens make a decision. This 12 common folk thing trends to remove the politics BS if it exist. We have seen several politically connected individuals lately end up in said courtrooms and while the claim of "Its all Politics" has been screamed to high heaven, juries have said guilty.

If Wayne and company are innocent, go to trial. There is a saying among attorneys, if the Facts are on your side pound on the facts, if the Law is on your side pound on the law, if neither are on your side pound on the table and yell.

Have you heard anything from the NRA about the Law or Facts in this instance? I haven't.

As a retired financial auditor I must say that everyone does not have thieves at the top of their organizations. However, those that have some form of an imperial CEO are very much suspect and if that CEO is involved in the picking of his/her board you are just asking for trouble.

Finally, we have a lot of very good people in the shooting sports/hunting arena that are more than capable of running the NRA. Set a maximum of 4 years lifetime in the job and have the board hire.

Have a good day.
ROY—- I like your idea about some Term Limits for Leadership at the NRA, not sure exactly what the limit should be?...but it makes sense. Also agree there are “good people” out there that could do the job and I would support paying the “right person” BIG $$ base salary ($800k - $1m) PLUS a bonus - for achieving specific goals. That’s what top executives make and that’s what the best talent is worth. That’s my opinion, others may disagree, but I believe to attract highly
capable and successful Executives you’ll need to offer a competitive compensation package.
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