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Hate thumb operated safety / love the P238

This is a discussion on Hate thumb operated safety / love the P238 within the P238, P938 Pistol forums, part of the SIG Sauer Pistols category; I've seen a video, maybe on this forum, of a man and his son both getting fatally shot in a robbery because the man had ...


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Old 08-31-2017, 11:14 AM   #16
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I've seen a video, maybe on this forum, of a man and his son both getting fatally shot in a robbery because the man had a gun but did not have a round in the chamber. He couldn't rack one in while under pressure of the robbery.

Guns are dangerous tools and must be handled carefully at all times. Remember, and ALWAYS follow The Ten Commandments of Firearm Safety.

If you are uncomfortable with your firearm or the way you carry it Cease and Desist Immediately, there is no shame in that. Find another gun or another method.

Not all people are able to carry firearms. Not all people are cut out to play professional sports. Everyone's not cut out to be a brain surgeon. Do what you can do well and try to excel at those things.

Happy Trails.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:55 AM   #17
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Hate thumb operated safety / love the P238

A Funny Thing Happened on the way to the Forum. (1966, Comedy staring Buster Keaton, Phil Silvers and Jack Gilford).....
no, NOT one! This one:

While Googling, "Striker Fired", I note that Google quotes GunzMart in defining the term 'Striker Fired' (they use a Glock as their example). And the closing sentence in that definition is, "Finally, there are no external safeties on a striker fired pistol."

Well, I'd say the half a $billion+ dollar U.S. Army / Sig M17 Striker Fired pistol (MHS) contract is just about to invalidate that comment! [Not to mention the Thumb Safety mod that's been available for a Glock for a couple of years now].

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Old 08-31-2017, 07:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busykngt View Post
OP:
While most in America, don't recommend that mode of carry for self defense, the Israeli Army teaches a draw from holster, that does incorporate racking a round in their manual of arms for that type of platform. And I'd say, especially with the P238, it is probably one of the more viable pistols to be able to use that technique with (since the P238, is so easy to rack - even a grandmother with arthritis could do it!).
Even the Israeli Carry can get a highly trained Israeli policeman nearly killed:- http://preparedgunowners.com/2015/10...bbed-to-death/
How would the average person cope in this situation?
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Old 08-31-2017, 09:15 PM   #19
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Excellent link (& related commentary) Sigandcz, thanks for posting that. John Correia, the YouTube "ASP" guy has recently had some interesting video "case studies" involving knife attacks too. The quickness and ambush nature of such attacks make them exceedingly difficult to defend against.
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Old 09-01-2017, 03:55 AM   #20
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Excellent article. Thank you for the link. Really gets you thinking..
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Old 09-01-2017, 04:56 AM   #21
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I just bought two P238ís this week. I do hate the safety. In talking to a retired LE type that works at the range I go said
he keeps a round in the barrel with the hammer down (no safety). He has done this for many years in his pocket.
Reading found a guy that has no round in the barrel but racking the slide while drawing from concealment.
Guys I really donít want the safety so what do you think of the two above ways to carry in pocket? Or another but w/o the safety.
Thank you
As mentioned, I don't recommend carrying a single action gun with a chambered round hammer down in the pocket. If you were carrying it in a belt holster it would be a little different, but not in the pocket. As to carrying Israeli style, no round in the chamber, I've always said it is insane to do so, but I've recently changed my mind on that. It all depends on you, the individual. If you watch some Israeli operators, they're pretty damn quick with it, but they train...A LOT! If you're willing to train to that carry method then you should be fine in most cases. The process will be a little slower since you're having to retrieve the gun from a pocket, but it's really not going to matter under most conditions anyway. It's not like we're all smooth operators.
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Old 09-01-2017, 05:01 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Sigandcz View Post
Even the Israeli Carry can get a highly trained Israeli policeman nearly killed:- Watch as Israeli carry nearly gets an Israeli Police Officer stabbed to death | Prepared Gun Owners
How would the average person cope in this situation?
The average person is as likely to get killed either way. If you don't train you're not going to perform very well regardless, so why would anyone think they have a better chance with a round in the chamber? What's the old saying...when faced with adverse circumstances, you will not rise to the occasion. You will default to the level of training you have mastered. Something like that.

Last edited by GCBHM; 09-01-2017 at 05:05 AM.
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Old 09-01-2017, 05:07 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Big Cape View Post
I've seen a video, maybe on this forum, of a man and his son both getting fatally shot in a robbery because the man had a gun but did not have a round in the chamber. He couldn't rack one in while under pressure of the robbery.

Guns are dangerous tools and must be handled carefully at all times. Remember, and ALWAYS follow The Ten Commandments of Firearm Safety.

If you are uncomfortable with your firearm or the way you carry it Cease and Desist Immediately, there is no shame in that. Find another gun or another method.

Not all people are able to carry firearms. Not all people are cut out to play professional sports. Everyone's not cut out to be a brain surgeon. Do what you can do well and try to excel at those things.

Happy Trails.
I saw that same video. From what I could see it did not look to me that the man was adept. He looked to me like he had never trained beyond target practice for accuracy at the range. I would be willing to bet the average Israeli special operator would have won that confrontation.
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Old 09-01-2017, 05:59 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by GCBHM View Post
As mentioned, I don't recommend carrying a single action gun with a chambered round hammer down in the pocket.
Why?
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Old 09-01-2017, 06:03 AM   #25
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Why?

Bc I think it is inherently unsafe. I'm not a fan of SA guns in the pocket at all, but putting a round in the chamber, lowering the hammer in a small gun, and slipping it into the pocket just doesn't set well with me. Why did you ask me instead of the others who advised against it?


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Old 09-01-2017, 06:11 AM   #26
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The OP was the one that talked about lowering the hammer not me. If you read back you'll see I said it was meant to be carried cocked and locked. You said single actions are unsafe in the pocket but are safe in a belt holster. That was the statement I was questioning as I think it is false. The purchase on the safety of my 938 required me to smooth and loosen up so I could manipulate it at all with just my thumb. It is very tight and a pocket holster completely covers the trigger. It is as safe in the pocket as it is on the belt.
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Old 09-01-2017, 06:12 AM   #27
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The OP was the one that talked about lowering the hammer not me. If you read back you'll see I said it was meant to be carried cocked and locked. You said single actions are unsafe in the pocket but are safe in a belt holster. That was the statement I was questioning as I think it is false. The purchase on the safety of my 938 required me to smooth and loosen up so I could manipulate it at all with just my thumb. It is very tight and a pocket holster completely covers the trigger. It is as safe in the pocket as it is on the belt.


In your opinion. Mine is different. And that's ok.


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Old 09-01-2017, 06:38 AM   #28
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Looks like I misread your first post on the subject, sorry. I agree hammer down is not the way to carry any single action 1911 type platform anyway, anytime and said so earlier in the thread. I do carry my 938 C&L'ed in a Desantis pocket holster as the trigger is covered and a fair amount of force is required to take the safety off.

Last edited by NHTerryP; 09-01-2017 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 09-01-2017, 06:39 AM   #29
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Looks like I misread your first post on the subject, sorry. I agree hammer down is not the way to carry any single action 1911 type platform anyway anytime and said so earlier in the thread. I do carry my 938 C&L'ed in a Desantis pocket holster as the trigger is covered and a fair amount of force is required to take the safety off.

No worries. I agree, cocked and locked is the way to carry one, unless one chooses to carry without a round in the chamber.


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Old 09-01-2017, 07:10 AM   #30
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As mentioned, I don't recommend carrying a single action gun with a chambered round hammer down in the pocket. If you were carrying it in a belt holster it would be a little different, but not in the pocket.
IMO, it's not so much an issue of where you carry the pistol with the hammer down on a chambered round, it's the act of lowering the hammer on a chambered round that is inherently unsafe.
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