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Sig Quality Control & The P226-R NAVY

This is a discussion on Sig Quality Control & The P226-R NAVY within the SIG Sauer Pistols forums, part of the SIG Sauer Forum category; Hello, all! Let me start by saying that I am new to the community and hope I can learn from everyone here who is Knowledgeable ...


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Old 10-08-2011, 02:50 AM   #1
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Hello, all! Let me start by saying that I am new to the community and hope I can learn from everyone here who is Knowledgeable in Sig's products and other firearms.



Now, I've heard of a lot recently, by browsing through a few firearm forums that Sig's Quality Control is down the drain. That Sig's products to date are not of the high standards of the older Sig's. Which worries me, and has left me very hesitant in purchasing a Sig. The P226-R Navy to be specific...



So, I've come to the Sig forum to talk to you gents about your thoughts on Sig's Quality Control today. How is their quality doing nowadays? Could the Sig still last me a lifetime if it was run hard but maintained often? Have they improved since '05 - '07?



I am searching for my first Concealed Carry Weapon purchase, as well as my first duty sidearm (and by duty, I'm only referring to a **** scenario or home defense weapon, at the moment. A combat sidearm, if you will.) A few reasons why I have chosen the Sig is for the quality or legacy they have built around themselves, or in my mind, as being one of the high end and top of the line product manufacturers. I have heard many great things of the P226, such as it's reliability, durability, accuracy, it's ergonomics (which fit in my hands nicely), and not to mention it's aesthetically pleasing. And for the Navy model, I plan to enlist in the Navy within a couple of years. (I have an introduction thread that explains a bit more in depth). So the P226-R NAVY model was love at first sight. I was honestly thinking of a firearm which could have an anchor embedded onto the slide somehow, to represent my affiliation with the USN. And the P226 NAVY actually popped up during research and I was just in awe! But...from everything I've heard recently about Sig...I just can't help but step back and take a look at other options...For the price range of around $800 - 900, I would expect to be getting a top of the line firearm (not to say that it isn't, but the rumors have me re-thinking Sig's Quality...unfortunately.)



So at that price range, I've browsed around other options. Such as the HK P30, Glock 17/19, S&W M&P9, and the FNP-9. All which I have found at a lower price than the P226 NAVY, and all have had better reviews from what I can see from recent dates.



I just want to know....if I could honestly trust the new productions and this new CEO of Sig or not. Just a quick note, I am a student at the moment so money is a bit of an issue, but I am willing to dish out enough money for a firearm that will protect me and others, and will last me a lifetime....!



Thank you all for taking your time and reading through my thread. I appreciate it. I would really love to own a Sig. But for the higher price of the other options, and the possibility of not getting the bang for the buck. (At least for the new products, the old products don't seem to have a rail to mount lights on.)
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Old 10-08-2011, 03:18 AM   #2
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I have six right now and one on order, does that help?



With every manufacturer there can be quality problems, If you believe that there is one with zero issues, you are not being realistic. Many manufacturers are looking for ways to lower their costs to remain competitive in their markets and will incorporate changes in materials and processes to do so. Some individuals will be very vocal in words or print about any change good or bad without even knowing the facts. Some people have established preferences for one thing over another, such as the change from steel guide rods to plastic guide rods, is their any REAL functional difference?, it does not matter, it's what is prefered (I prefer the steel ones, but that wont stop me from buying a Sig, I'll just buy an after market solid guide rod). The internet has allowed for issues to be concentrated even though they may be, in reality, few and far between. Also consider that more people are inclined to complain than praise. Look around, you'll find people who have issues with any manufacturer and people who have issues with just one.





You also need to consider that there are also diehard followers of one manufacturer over another and they will take every opportunity to make their position heard. Everyone has different requirements, real or imaginary, and will offer their opinion from that position, including me. It's also important to try to separate the emotion from the facts in what one reads on a forum.



I like the Sig line of classic pistols because of many reasons. One of the most important reasons is, they fit my hands ergonomically and to me, that is of primary importance.



A response I read in a thread a while back when someone was barking up a storm about a cosmetic only issue will forever stick in my mind. . . "It's a gun, not a Faberge Egg"
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Old 10-08-2011, 06:23 AM   #3
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The P226 IMO is on the elite league of one of the finest if not finest combat 9MM pistols ever. To not buy one because of innerweb ramblings is just plain nuts. Do owners have a problem with a SIG pistol from time to time?? Of course just like everyone else BUT SIGs do come with a lifetime warranty and SIG has excellent customer service. On another forum the owner of a new HK 45C pistol had the frame crack on it and the total gun had to be replaced - again an extremely unusual happening but stuff does happen.



I am a member of another forum where most of the info about SIGs being poor quality comes from. I spent a lot of time looking into it. My take is there is about a half dozen forum members out of 66,145 who cause this who CONSTANTLY bring it up EVERY SINGLE time someone comes to the forum with any even most minor problem with their SIG and of course saying - the German SIGs never had this problem and it is because SIG has poor quality control instead of actually trying to help the member work through usually minor issues that are oftem related to their grip or a magazine problem. Guess what there were problems with the German SIGs also including some frames cracking in the earliers versions such as some mud rail P226s. It is getting better however as even the main moderator over their has noticed that and warned some members they better tone it way down or possibly be banned. That forum is also NOT a SIG fanboy forum which I think is good as some very lively and frank discussion does occur. I know for a fact that at least some fanboy manufaturer specifc forums will squash any threads that are deemed too negative about their beloved pistol of choice.



Now is it possible that quality control is down at SIG compared to years ago?? I would say so somewhat but if you read what Todd Green has to say at pistol-training.com he also says that but claims it is industry wide. If you go and browse the Mercedes or BMW forums looking specifically for problems with their vehicles you probably would be afraid to buy one again if you dwell on the negatives, Reliable also has a great point in that there is a LOT of fanboy bashing going on.



I have more than a few SIGs myself and a couple P226s. All my SIGS through thousands of rounds, older or newer, have been absolutely 100 percent. Myself I would not hesiate to buy a brand new SIG if I wanted one from the P210/P220/P225/P226/P228/P229/P232/P239 or SP2022 line. Also IMO "about" the era from 1990 - 1999 is probably the timeframe where SIG design and quality was incredibly high. German and Exter pistols made with NO MIM parts along with the P220 and P226 upgrades to beef up the frame, etc. I never hesitate to buy a nice example from about that era. Again that does not mean there is a problem with new SIGS because MIM is here to stay with ALL manufacturers and works very well when done right but given the opportunity I will go for a non MIM parts pistol. My newer SP2022 and P229 have some MIM parts but have also been flawless.



SIG pistols however do need a little more maintenance than your average poly or steel (versus alloy) frame pistols. Number 1 is that you want to make SURE that the frame rails on your alloy frame SIG are ALWAYS well lubed whether ot be a high quality oil such as Weapon Shield or grease such as Slide Glide. Number 2 is to follow SIG recommended maintenance especially for recoil sprigs of changing at minumum of 5000 rounds tiough many do 3000 to be on the safe side. Do that and your P226 will last a VERY VERY long time with numerous user reports of over 100, 000 rounds and still going strong though the barrel may need changing when accuracy suffers usually reported to be around 40,000 rounds. Magazines also need cleaning and maintenance over time and are OFTEN the problem when a pistol starts to suddenly have problems with failure to load correclty, etc.



So please by all means feel confident buying a new P226 and the Navy model is very well loved. Check the links below to some reviews and cumalitive ratings on the P226 to ease your mind.



http://policelink.mo...-sig-sauer-p226



http://www.gundirect...0213&gun=Pistol
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Old 10-08-2011, 07:18 AM   #4
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I've bought three sigs and all three have had to go back to Sig. Call me lucky I guess. My P226 is now my best pistol. It seems that after you run them through, test them a lot and send them back if you have to, they are great pistols but it's not something all powerful and perfect out of the box like a Smith & Wesson or similar. If you can work through and deal with issues that "might" pop up out of the box, I have no doubt they will last as long as you want to own them.



In my opinion Sig needs to stop making 30 different variants of the same gun, stop trying to be a Rifle company and go back to being a handgun company. They stretched themselves too thin and it shows in their QC. Also, German made vs. NH made makes no difference.
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Old 10-08-2011, 07:22 AM   #5
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Sigarms228, well said. My sentiments are similar as you can tell but I am such a poor typer, it would have taken me hours to say all of what you said!
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Old 10-08-2011, 09:30 AM   #6
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I have been an avid fan of Sig Sauer since the late 80's. I have not had any issues with any of my Sig's either made in Germany or USA. The last time I bought a Sig was a few months ago, and I am very impressed with its performance. Should I have any issues, I know that Sig Sauer Customer Service stands by their product and will do whatever to correct the problem. With that said,
  • Would I hesitate to buy another Sig? Never!
  • Can you go wrong buying a Sig? Only if you accidently bought the same model twice, because you forgot you already owned one, and you really meant to buy another model.
  • Do I think Sig's can fail, fresh out of the box? Yes, but that goes for any product ever made.
  • If money is an issue and you are concerned with the quality of a new Sig, you can always buy a good, older used Sig P226 - possibly a made in Germany P226



Hope this helps...
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Old 10-08-2011, 05:26 PM   #7
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glad to know the great customer service sig has....can't wait to get mine
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Old 10-08-2011, 07:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigarms228 View Post
The P226 IMO is on the elite league of one of the finest if not finest combat 9MM pistols ever. To not buy one because of innerweb ramblings is just plain nuts. Do owners have a problem with a SIG pistol from time to time?? Of course just like everyone else BUT SIGs do come with a lifetime warranty and SIG has excellent customer service. On another forum the owner of a new HK 45C pistol had the frame crack on it and the total gun had to be replaced - again an extremely unusual happening but stuff does happen.



Now is it possible that quality control is down at SIG compared to years ago?? I would say so somewhat but if you read what Todd Green has to say at pistol-training.com he also says that but claims it is industry wide. If you go and browse the Mercedes or BMW forums looking specifically for problems with their vehicles you probably would be afraid to buy one again if you dwell on the negatives, Reliable also has a great point in that there is a LOT of fanboy bashing going on......


How would you explain buying 3 Sigs and all three had major firing issues where they needed to be sent back to Sig? Don't get me wrong, I love Sig and I'll keep buying them but for me to buy three Sigs and to have to send all three back says something to me about quality control. I am not a fan-boy of any specific brand really other than Sig but I have to call a spade a spade when I see it or in this case pay a lot of money for it. In the last two years I have bought nearly 2 dozen handguns and rifles for self defense and Tactical defense classes and my Sigs were the only ones I ever had any issues with. Even my $250 Keltec's have been flawless and they are well known to be hit or miss.





I only hope my new P220 doesn't give me any sort of issues. Although I highly doubt I'd get rid of it even if it did. At those prices and with the reputation Sig has for their Higher end and more proven firearms, I will probably just end up sending it back and have them fix it. The P series platforms (except the 238) are well proven and I trust them with my life but only after they are truly beaten into proven operation.
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Old 10-08-2011, 07:49 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Wolvee View Post
How would you explain buying 3 Sigs and all three had major firing issues where they needed to be sent back to Sig? Don't get me wrong, I love Sig and I'll keep buying them but for me to buy three Sigs and to have to send all three back says something to me about quality control. I am not a fan-boy of any specific brand really other than Sig but I have to call a spade a spade when I see it or in this case pay a lot of money for it. In the last two years I have bought nearly 2 dozen handguns and rifles for self defense and Tactical defense classes and my Sigs were the only ones I ever had any issues with. Even my $250 Keltec's have been flawless and they are well known to be hit or miss.





I only hope my new P220 doesn't give me any sort of issues. Although I highly doubt I'd get rid of it even if it did. At those prices and with the reputation Sig has for their Higher end and more proven firearms, I will probably just end up sending it back and have them fix it. The P series platforms (except the 238) are well proven and I trust them with my life but only after they are truly beaten into proven operation.


WOW... three bad Sig's. I'm sorry you had to experience those issues... I would feel the same way. Just out of curiosity, are the three all the same model and bought at the same time? Also, were they all experiencing the same issue and were the causes of the issues the same?



Thanks!
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Old 10-08-2011, 08:08 PM   #10
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WOW... three bad Sig's. I'm sorry you had to experience those issues... I would feel the same way. Just out of curiosity, are the three all the same model and bought at the same time? Also, were they all experiencing the same issue and were the causes of the issues the same?



Thanks!






No, three different models all bought at three different times within the last two years. Three different causes of the same basic issues, FTF & FTE.
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Old 10-09-2011, 06:07 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Wolvee View Post
How would you explain buying 3 Sigs and all three had major firing issues where they needed to be sent back to Sig? Don't get me wrong, I love Sig and I'll keep buying them but for me to buy three Sigs and to have to send all three back says something to me about quality control. I am not a fan-boy of any specific brand really other than Sig but I have to call a spade a spade when I see it or in this case pay a lot of money for it. In the last two years I have bought nearly 2 dozen handguns and rifles for self defense and Tactical defense classes and my Sigs were the only ones I ever had any issues with. Even my $250 Keltec's have been flawless and they are well known to be hit or miss.





I only hope my new P220 doesn't give me any sort of issues. Although I highly doubt I'd get rid of it even if it did. At those prices and with the reputation Sig has for their Higher end and more proven firearms, I will probably just end up sending it back and have them fix it. The P series platforms (except the 238) are well proven and I trust them with my life but only after they are truly beaten into proven operation.


I certainly can not explain that and from sharing experiences with other forum members at various forums about SIGs and my own experiences I would say that is highly unusual but I certainly understand your concerns based on your own experiences and thanks for sharing them and I certainly do consider them valuable information and certainly of concern. Please let us know how your new P220 works out for you. Based on your own experiences I could not blame you if you never bought another SIG.



If you have the time could you briefly list which models you had problems with, what SIG did to fix it, was it fixed to your satisfaction the first time, and has it been reliable since??



I REALLY like my SIGs and they work best for me but for best reliability out of the box I would have to vote for HK though I still consider SIG very high in that category. The reason I don't own any HKs yet is that I just plain shoot my SIGs better and yes I have tried quite a few HKs. The one HK I may buy is the HK45C. Sadly Glock has lost a lot of credance for reliability with me with the release of the Gen4 and switching to MIM extractors. I would trust my life 100 percent with my Gen 2 Glock 19 however.
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Old 10-09-2011, 04:00 PM   #12
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I make no excuses for poor quality control from SIG or from any other manufacturer. They all seem to have problems from time to time. The best of the manufacturers provide good customer service and make things right. I had problems with one new SIG out of the three that I've bought within the past year. SIG made it right and made it right promptly. Some gun makers have good reputations for customer service--Glock, Ruger, S&W and SIG all readily come to mind despite the occasional complaint you hear repeated in various forms, seemingly forever, on gun forums. I own several examples of all those brands of guns and, frankly, I've had a problem or two come up with every one of the brands. But each time a problem arose, it was quickly resolved.



For a long time I put off my first SIG purchase based on the complaints I read on another forum. Well, I finally got around to buying a new SIG and it performed perfectly. And even when I eventually got a SIG that did fail to perform perfectly, my experience with their customer service and warranty repair was top notch.



So I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a new SIG. If you get one that doesn't perform right, immediately contact SIG about it and I betcha they'll fix it for you.
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:11 AM   #13
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Thank you all so much for the amazing info! I'll definitely have to try out the Sig P226-R NAVY. Regardless of what others say! It may work just fine for me, right?



I'll have to find a way of shooting the HK P30 and the Sig to see which one works better for me though.



(I would love to fire the sig, but the only complaint is that the grip pushes my hands down. While I normally hold handguns with a high grip. But we'll see.)
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:11 AM   #14
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Bought 4 new Exeters in the last year and all are well made and reliable. Whats not to like? New stronger one piece stainless slide ,Ionbond Nitron hostile enviorment vapor coating,new improved more reliable external extracters. The fit&finish and performance are second to none. These are better pistols than than the old Sigs I had 10-25 years ago. I tryed Glock and have had good service and tryed HK ,but to me out of the 3 1st. Sig,secondGlock and 3rd and last HK.

Last edited by jeep; 04-10-2012 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:29 AM   #15
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Thank you all so much for the amazing info! I'll definitely have to try out the Sig P226-R NAVY. Regardless of what others say! It may work just fine for me, right?



I'll have to find a way of shooting the HK P30 and the Sig to see which one works better for me though.



(I would love to fire the sig, but the only complaint is that the grip pushes my hands down. While I normally hold handguns with a high grip. But we'll see.)
Well, if you're a student you can buy two used LEO Glock 17 trade-ins that have been gone through and truly duty tested, and still have $100 left over for ammo. or training, compared to the Navy. Obviously not the same pistol as a 226 Navy, but they work and cycle ammo..
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