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Failure to Fire with Franken Sig

This is a discussion on Failure to Fire with Franken Sig within the SIG Sauer Pistols forums, part of the SIG Sauer Forum category; I built a Franken Sig with a P228 slide on a 229 frame (with 29 marked locking insert - for a p228). I have been ...


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Old 04-17-2017, 07:07 AM   #1
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Failure to Fire with Franken Sig

I built a Franken Sig with a P228 slide on a 229 frame (with 29 marked locking insert - for a p228). I have been having failures to fire but they usually work on second strike. Failures are intermittent maybe one in every 3 shots depending on ammo. The "pencil test" shows the same inconsistancy. I have verified the the firing pin moves freely when the trigger is pulled so it does not seem to be the firing pin block. I have tried it on two different 229 frames (both 40 one german no rail and US with rail). Any ideas?

Thanks
T

Last edited by bfettk; 04-17-2017 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 04-17-2017, 07:10 AM   #2
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Welcome to SIG Talk! Possible the firing pin channel all gunked up? I'd spray the firing pin channel liberally with a brake cleaner and dry out with compressed air.
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Old 04-17-2017, 07:17 AM   #3
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Thanks for the quick reply, I've tried that. I have even completely torn down the slide and cleaned and checked all the slide parts. I can't find anything wrong.
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Old 04-17-2017, 07:28 AM   #4
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Is your firing pin spring installed with the small coil end facing the rear of the firing pin?
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Old 04-17-2017, 07:30 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfettk View Post
I built a Franken Sig with a P228 slide on a 229 frame (with 29 locking insert). I have been having failures to fire but they usually work on second strike. Failures are intermittent maybe one in every 3 shots depending on ammo. The "pencil test" shows the same inconsistancy. I have verified the the firing pin moves freely when the trigger is pulled so it does not seem to be the firing pin block. I have tried it on two different 229 frames (both 40 one german no rail and US with rail). Any ideas?

Thanks
T
First off, welcome to Sig Talk, from the southwest corner of Indiana. Just as Malicious Compliance mentioned, check to insure the firing pin "channel" doesn't have a lot of debris. It could be beneficial if you would check the cartridge's primer, before striking it again, to see how deep, if any indentation was in the primer, when the cartridge not firing. Since you tried it on 2 different frames, we can "almost" rule out too light of a mainspring. Here again, are both mainsprings factory, or reduced power aftermarket?
When you state the firing pin moves freely when the trigger is pulled, is this with the trigger pulled as far back as possible... or just to the point, the hammer is released? Remember in most cases there can be some "over travel", and does this pistol happen to have the Short Reset Trigger system installed?

Just trying to cover all of the bases...
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Old 04-17-2017, 08:27 AM   #6
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Welcome to SIGTalk! I thought you needed to use the P228 locking insert with the P228 slide assembly to work.
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Old 04-17-2017, 08:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
First off, welcome to Sig Talk, from the southwest corner of Indiana. Just as Malicious Compliance mentioned, check to insure the firing pin "channel" doesn't have a lot of debris. It could be beneficial if you would check the cartridge's primer, before striking it again, to see how deep, if any indentation was in the primer, when the cartridge not firing. Since you tried it on 2 different frames, we can "almost" rule out too light of a mainspring. Here again, are both mainsprings factory, or reduced power aftermarket?
When you state the firing pin moves freely when the trigger is pulled, is this with the trigger pulled as far back as possible... or just to the point, the hammer is released? Remember in most cases there can be some "over travel", and does this pistol happen to have the Short Reset Trigger system installed?

Just trying to cover all of the bases...
Williard,
I have completely removed the slide block and checked the channel visually and cleaned it out with solvent. I also cleaned the firing pin itself and the firing pin block. The firing pin spring was installed correctly and I reinstalled it with the small end first. The first frame was a brand new US 229R frame with the E2 grip but not the SRT. When I had the issues with the frame I thought maybe the mainspring may be weaker as I know the E2 has different parts. I purchased a police trade-in 229 357 Sig with a German Frame. It had the longer plastic mainspring seat and no SRT. I do not believe the mainspring was changed but am not sure. It had Hogue grips which I removed and installed new style P228 grips from Brownells. I also installed a new threaded barrel from CDNN that is for P228/229 not the P229-1. I believe the failures existed before that but I do not remember if I fired it with the original barrel. The locking insert was bought with the 228 upper and is marked 29. When I talk about the firing pin moving freely I checked it in both conditions. I pulled the trigger until i felt resistance and before the hammer dropped, I verified it moved freely. I then held the hammer back and pulled the trigger all the way to the rear and checked again.

Admittedly I have not fired the gun since I made all these changes. But throughout all of these changes I was checking the firing pin using the "pencil test" After I cleaned everything It seemed I did not see any "light strikes" when I dry fired DA but there seemed to be a few weak hits when I cocked the hammer and fired SA. I saw no light strikes when the 40 cal slide was installed (with correct locking block of course).
T
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:05 AM   #8
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Welcome to SIGTalk! I thought you needed to use the P228 locking insert with the P228 slide assembly to work.
Pretty sure you do, unless you have a first-gen 9mm 229 frame.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:15 AM   #9
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Sorry when I said "29" I meant marked 29 on the top of the locking block. Not for a P229. My bad, I didn't clarify.

Troy
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:22 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by bfettk View Post
Sorry when I said "29" I meant marked 29 on the top of the locking block. Not for a P229. My bad, I didn't clarify.

Troy
Ah, got it.

Is it possible the new grips are impinging on something, like maybe the mainspring assembly or trigger bar?

I'm scratching my head here.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfettk View Post
Williard,
I have completely removed the slide block and checked the channel visually and cleaned it out with solvent. I also cleaned the firing pin itself and the firing pin block. The firing pin spring was installed correctly and I reinstalled it with the small end first. The first frame was a brand new US 229R frame with the E2 grip but not the SRT. When I had the issues with the frame I thought maybe the mainspring may be weaker as I know the E2 has different parts. I purchased a police trade-in 229 357 Sig with a German Frame. It had the longer plastic mainspring seat and no SRT. I do not believe the mainspring was changed but am not sure. It had Hogue grips which I removed and installed new style P228 grips from Brownells. I also installed a new threaded barrel from CDNN that is for P228/229 not the P229-1. I believe the failures existed before that but I do not remember if I fired it with the original barrel. The locking insert was bought with the 228 upper and is marked 29. When I talk about the firing pin moving freely I checked it in both conditions. I pulled the trigger until i felt resistance and before the hammer dropped, I verified it moved freely. I then held the hammer back and pulled the trigger all the way to the rear and checked again.

Admittedly I have not fired the gun since I made all these changes. But throughout all of these changes I was checking the firing pin using the "pencil test" After I cleaned everything It seemed I did not see any "light strikes" when I dry fired DA but there seemed to be a few weak hits when I cocked the hammer and fired SA. I saw no light strikes when the 40 cal slide was installed (with correct locking block of course).
T
I'm going to suggest putting both frames back to their original condition with their original slide assemblies, and insure both fire without fault. If they do, then we can assume it is something in your setup, to use the 228 slide. I'm not an expert on the locking insert issue, so I assume that the #29 insert you say you purchased, is correct for the 9mm P228. Normally Sigs barrels are spot on, dimensionally, for interchangeability. Short of getting a headspace gauge, drop a loaded round down your threaded barrel, and see if the base of the cartridge is "lower" than the barrels hood. Also check for firing pin protrusion... at the firing pins furtherest forward travel, how much protrudes through the breechface? Pictures could help also, of the 228 slide mounted on both frames.
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Last edited by Willard; 04-17-2017 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:57 AM   #12
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"29"....where are you seeing this, are you seeing rev 29....that's a 40/357sig locking insert??

welcome from az
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:13 AM   #13
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Its marked 29 on the top not the bottom. Like in this thread...

http://sigtalk.com/sig-sauer-pistols...ait-shoot.html

T
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:25 AM   #14
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Or better yet post #14 in this thread.

http://sigtalk.com/sig-sauer-pistols...c_location=ufi

2 of the 3 locking inserts I have are marked like this. One is "29" (9mm 228) and the other "40" (40 229). The 3rd has a magazine disconnect and is not being used. I did a lot of research on this site before trying this endeavor and even more when it failed to work for me. I was hoping someone here might have had the same issues either with a conversion or possibly even on a standard 228, 229 or whatever. Wish I hadn't sold my first P228 in the '99 to get a P226 in 40...

Thanks,
T
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:09 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by bfettk View Post
Its marked 29 on the top not the bottom. Like in this thread...

http://sigtalk.com/sig-sauer-pistols...ait-shoot.html

T
just checking, thanks for the reply.
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