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Does your Sig shoot low?

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88K views 152 replies 99 participants last post by  Dumbdumb 
#1 · (Edited)
There seem to be a lot of these posts, and I feel like the responses are not always as precise as they could be, or the advice is good but pieced out over the thread, so I wanted to try and create a post that might get stickied.

Here is a picture of my "Sig" shooting low.


When I first bought the pistol it was worse. Generally hitting at the very bottom or below the paper. As it turns out, my sight picture was wrong.

POINT 1: The vast majority of Sigs use a "combat sight" picture. This means that the dot on your front sight post should cover your intended target.

If you are using a Center Hold
or Six O'Clock Hold Sight picture
, you will hit low.

These are incorrect sight pictures for a Sig (from the factory). They may have worked fine with whatever pistol or rifle you have/had/tried once and liked, but it is not the sight picture Sig intends for their pistols and will not work on a stock Sig.
I don't intended to debate the merits of it, just know this is how Sigs are setup from the factory. Sigs from the factory are set up to use a combat sight picture at 10 yards. Closer or farther than that and the ballistics won't match up. Once I understood what the sight picture was supposed to look like, I got "on the paper", but was still well below where I should have been. See above.



This is the same pistol, shot from a cheap plastic bench rest I purchased to test what I felt I already knew.

POINT 2: Your trigger work might not be as awesome as you had hoped. (mine sure wasn't) I have a tendency (like many people) to anticipate recoil and yank the pistol down, resulting in low shots. Perfect trigger pull is actually not common, it takes practice. If you haven't shot much before, or haven't shot much recently/for awhile, get or borrow a bench. You can purchase a bench online for about one third of what a new set of sights cost (or half of what one sight costs). Shooting from a bench will help give you a good idea how much your trigger pull is affecting your results and should be recommended by anyone before you start looking at purchasing a new set of sight(s). The below is an excellent starting point. It shows some of the many mistakes a right handed shooter can make and the error in shot placement that results.




"But my friend's P22# has #X and #X sights on it and he does fine with it! And so do I! My P22# came from the factory with #X-2 and #X-1 sights on it. Some idiot at the factory just grabbed random sights out of a bin and Sig did it wrong."

POINT 3: Sig puts particular sights on particular models/batches at the factory purposefully. Just because your new pistol doesn't match what you saw on the internet, doesn't mean it's wrong. The pistol above with the just fine bench results came with a #6 front and #6 rear sight (it happens to be a P229 Legion). A quick Google will garner for you that a P229 in 9mm should come with a #6 front and #8 rear. Or maybe a #8 front and a #8 rear, depending on the post that you find.

The fact is that Sig batch tests and picks a combo that works for the test pistols from that batch. It's likely not a perfect system. The test pistols could be poorly chosen and not representative of the rest of the batch, or the pistol you bought might not be representative of the rest of the batch. You can call Sig, give them your serial number (on recent models) and they can pull up what batch it was in and what sight combo was chosen for that batch. However, until you bench shoot it (or develop/insure perfect trigger pull) you won't know if that combo works for your pistol. I should note here that I hear customer service is hit and miss. Some people have not had luck with Sig reps. The one I spoke to was nice a easily pulled up the required info. He also offered to take the pistol back in and have them "accuracy test" it to check it. I opted to buy a bench rest myself and save the mailing time. If I had found the sights were not correct, I would politely send the pistol back to Sig and expect them to get the right sights on it (for free).


Caveats to all this mess:
If you bought a used Sig, anything is possible. On a newer used pistol, you can call Sig and see what they put on at the factory. On an older model that doesn't seem to match POA with POI, lots is possible, but bench shooting will give you a better place to start from (and end your testing with). There are good and bad posts and articles out there about sight heights and how to make adjustments. This one I found particularly informative. If you are going to pay $60 (or more) to start swapping the sights on your pistol, make sure you understand the sight heights and what you expect the swap to do. There are people out there who can give you great or poor advice, but your best bet is to make sure you understand the information yourself before you change anything.
 
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#5 ·
...but some Sigs do hit low.
Top target is my Mk25 from 20 yards. Hits where it should.
Next down is a new acquisition I'm trying to work out. It was from 15 yards.
Next down was target #2 pistol from 5 yards.

Also, take note of ALL the tape just below the splatter targets. I had to pull my ole' faithful out to verify it was the gun and not me having a bad day.

Know your gun, know your ammo.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk
 
#7 ·
I thought my sig 1911 was "sighted low" but my friend... Who has several 1911s (including a 1916 1911 and a 1944 1911) proved me wrong...I was just " anticipated the recoil" as you pointed out...

He shot it fine. And dead center aiming just as you say in the second hold picture (" center hold").

I also shot his 1944 Colt.. Very nice gun!



Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
#9 ·
I just want to add to point #2. I never try to adjust/swap sights on a new gun till at least the third time I shoot it.

I have 25 handguns, 20 of them took more than one range session to get used to. Only three of those needed any adjustment, as revealed by bench shooting. The other 17 just needed some getting used to.

Also; I never use bench results to make adjustments. I adjust a gun for how it shoots in my hand.

With defense weapons, I lean more toward getting on target fast than accuracy. I lose an inch or two by using a Orange Trijicon HD front sight, but I get on target 100% faster. I set my range/target guns up for the best accuracy, as I can spare an extra second focusing a thin front sight.

I no longer worry whether a handgun has night sights or not. If I can see the target, I can see a Trijicon HD sight. If not, I need a light to identify the target. Night sights are pretty much meaningless for a range gun.
 
#15 ·
Funny, I never gave it much thought aiming at 6 o'clock, combat hold etc. whenever I take a new gun out to fire I would hold sights over bulls and slowly adjust from there if needed. Usually I wouldn't have to. I guess my sigs are sighted in using a combat hold. But, I do not have vision in my left eye (non dominant eye thankfully) so I'd assume my poa is different than those with two good eyes. Anyway. I'd never given it much thought at the range but am now very aware of where I am aiming and taking notes. I love this the collective knowledge found on this site
 
#16 ·
From Sig's website.....


"My SIG SAUER pistol is not accurate. Why? What should I do"?

"All SIG SAUER production duty/combat pistols are set up to use a “combat” sight picture. This is where the front sight completely covers the bullseye of the target. Using a six o’clock (“pumpkin on a post”) or center mass (“half’n’half”) sight picture will result in low impact. SIG SAUER, Inc sights in all non-sporting and non-target pistols for 2 inch groupings @ 10 yards. If you are still having trouble please contact Customer Service for further help and instruction. Please have your serial number ready. There are also very helpful free Internet sites that cover pistol group analysis".


I have always used the "Center Hold", also called half and half, where the top half of the ten ring sits on top of my front sight.
But it appears that Sig sets up their sights where the front dot completely covers the ten ring.
This P365-MS is my first Sig in 30 years, so I learned something new today.
 
This post has been deleted
#27 ·
Same here...

I never had the problem with my first Sig, a 229 .40, almost 25 years ago (always dead on), but did experience it early on with some subsequent Sigs. I've also had to slightly adjust my hold when I got my 239s (2), and 220 in .45. Both low until my brain and wrists adjusted to the different weight and size. All were fixed and quickly and now my brain (hand and wrists) have learned the adjustments, even when I bring different pistols to the range. No issues with my P6 or M11-A1. Those settled in quickly.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Sig Academy Marksmanship class confirmed combat hold on all Sig pistols. Cover spot on target with front sight where you want bullet to impact. We did drill with two shooters during class, first shooter put shot anywhere on target. Second shooter had three chances to put round on paper touching or through first shooters point of impact. Instructor kept saying, cover hole made by shooter one entirely with your front sight and squeeze.

Combat sight image for the win.
 
#26 ·
I appreciate the information. I just went through this issue with the Gen 5 Glocks until I realized they are now set up to have the shooter cover the POA with the front sight. Former Gen Glock's were set up to put the POA on top of the front sight. I had real issues with the suppressor height sights on my RX slide until I realized the Sig was set up the same way as the Gen 5 Glock. Still shoots a bit low but acceptable as BUIS's. My X5 Legion is spot on covering the POA with the front sight but because the front sight is so small placing the POA on top of the front sight doesn't make much difference until you get out to 15-25 yards.
 
#38 ·
My 1992 made P220 .45 hits POA at 25 yards, but my 1996 made P228 9mm hits 12 - 14 inches low at 25 yards.



I find for bulleye targets the "combat hold" completely covering the bullseye means I can't see what I am aiming at (a silhouette target would be a different story) which is why I rather do the half/half hold.
My friend has a lot of golf balls hanging on string at his range. Combat hold makes hitting a golf ball pretty tough, much like trying to hit the smaller steel discs.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
 
#31 ·
#33 ·
If your Sig shoots low your Glock will most likely shoot low and your Springfield will most likely shoot low and your H&K will also most likely shoot low......when you shoot it.

I remember taking a class and telling my instructor my gun won't hit that target from here unless I aim 10 inches high. He took my gun and aimed 10 inches high......he hit 10" high.

He said your guns fine must be someone else.

RCG
 
#34 ·
Oh; so true.

The greatest "instructor" was following the advice of my SIG CSR, who suggested the SIG bench rest test. It took about 30-40 minutes to dial it in to shooting dead on bullseye. Once I achieved the proper sight window; I could do nearly the same in combat stance. It was a miraculous day!

Now; it's a matter of how quickly I can reacquire the sight window after sending a round down range. It's a works in progress, but practice makes perfect.
 
#35 ·
A data point:

My NIB M11-A1 in 9mm has a #6 Front Sight and a #8 Rear Sight.

I just picked up today and I have not fired it. I -thought- that it would be #8/#8, based on what I'd been seeing on this forum.

Obviously, without having fired it, I have no idea how POI/POA works with this particular firearm with this particular set of sights.

Just wanted to share an observation of how it came from the factory.
 
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