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EDC with unloaded pistol

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Old 07-03-2020, 03:50 PM   #16
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Yes. But that doesn't make it right.

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Old 07-03-2020, 03:55 PM   #17
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It's what the Israelis do, but what do they know.

I guess I'm one of the stupid ones. But at the end of the day I've come to terms that most things I do I have to work really hard to be mediocre at it. So for me if I didn't have time to chamber a round I probably wouldn't have had time to pull it anyway. I carry anyway how I was trained, chamber empty.
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Old 07-03-2020, 04:16 PM   #18
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The bad guy already has the upper hand so how much more time do you want to give up
A. He knows his intentions , he knows when he is gonna make his move, you dont even know he exists yet.
So now when the move is made you gotta draw, rack, make sure safety is off, line up and fire.
Most likely you wont know until you see his play, and what if you have taken a round as your 1st notice your being attacked.
If you cant trust your own finger to not shoot off your gun in normal times how you gonna do all that other stuff with the same brain and same finger when its hammer time? Ludicrous, They have a name for those folks up here, VICTIMS! Dont matter if your "trained" that way. Your gonna die.
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Old 07-03-2020, 05:10 PM   #19
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I had a friend who was a retired Army Col. He and his wife carried without a round in the chamber.
He said that's the way he was taught in the Army.
You remove the gun from the holster and as you are pulling into position to fire you slingshot the slide to chamber a round. He taught his wife the same way.

Guess different strokes...
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Old 07-03-2020, 05:14 PM   #20
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To each his own if my feeling. I have had one in the pipe since I started carrying about 7 years ago. Some of my earlier guns had safeties. My Sig 1911 Ultra has a safety and my P239 a decocker. My 365 has no safety. Since I have carried it with one in the pipe for so long, I feel very comfortable that way. I shoot IDPA and I get to "practice" with one in the pipe. My wife has safeties on her 2 carry guns and that is what she prefers even with a round in the pipe.
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Old 07-03-2020, 05:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poppastar View Post
It's what the Israelis do, but what do they know.

I guess I'm one of the stupid ones. But at the end of the day I've come to terms that most things I do I have to work really hard to be mediocre at it. So for me if I didn't have time to chamber a round I probably wouldn't have had time to pull it anyway. I carry anyway how I was trained, chamber empty.
Just out of curiosity, what kind of training do you go through to account for a defensive situation where you can only use one hand? What one handed techniques are you using to chamber a round?
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Old 07-03-2020, 05:26 PM   #22
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An unchambered carry weapon is better than no weapon in a lot of situations I think

I am not good enough at racking one handed to even consider something like that though.

One of my training requirements was to be able to fend off an attacker with one arm and draw and fire with the other (either hand though left is a lot harder). For me, I have drilled into my muscle memory the following 4 steps on my P365 w/ MS:
  1. defeat garment
  2. grip
  3. pull
  4. pivot horizontal / disengage safety

From there I can fire or extend out and get a proper sight picture.

But like someone else said, to each his own...
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Old 07-03-2020, 07:03 PM   #23
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Most here seem to be talking about defensive scenarios where the threat is in your immediate space... 10 feet or less. But as armed citizens are we more likely to encounter a threat in a large crowded area... church, school, department store, outdoor gathering, etc. There, we may be in a position to prepare for assistance or protection of others... time to draw and load while locating and moving toward the threat.
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Old 07-03-2020, 07:19 PM   #24
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I can't quote the source but I recall reading about a study where knife wielding "attackers" rushed their victims from 7 yards...my recollection is that even most LE could not draw and get off a well aimed shot at the attacker before being stabbed. So imagine having to chamber a round first. Not me, thank you very much.
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Old 07-03-2020, 07:38 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMCutter View Post
I can't quote the source but I recall reading about a study where knife wielding "attackers" rushed their victims from 7 yards...my recollection is that even most LE could not draw and get off a well aimed shot at the attacker before being stabbed. So imagine having to chamber a round first. Not me, thank you very much.
My Instructor used to train military personnel and did just that. He would use a rubber knife and attack a student with a holstered plastic training pistol to see who was fastest. He always won!
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Old 07-03-2020, 07:43 PM   #26
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[QUOTE=charger22;5466728]Better they have a gun with them than not. If that is what makes them comfortable all the power to them. Maybe as they carry more they will learn to be more comfortable with it and can see how it might be better.

Too many wanna be operators/gun shop experts want to make people feel ******* dumb for such things. Don't be one of them support them carrying if this is the way they want to do it right now(or forever for that matter) let them.

Congratulate them on picking a fine weapon. Congratulate them on taking another step in the 2a world. Offer to be there if they have any questions.

I am happy to see more people buying protection. As a 2a community we need to welcome and understand this is new to people.

But as a community we want to ******* alienate people. We want to tell people that ******* "Tactical 2a Tim" says you should shove a gun aimed at your junk with a round in the chamber, weapon light, laser, and rmr or you might as well stay home and cower in fear because antifa is going to take over the world.

Thank him for his service for me.

Not withstanding your grammar; you're quite special aren't you?

I've been in the situation - twice - and, had I not had a round chambered; I'd be the one doing the lawn limbo. In one case; it was estimated that the entire scenario took 2/10 of a second - both of us firing.

Completely disagree with anyone who believes that 'Any gun is better than no gun'. Ludacris. There are gun owners who shouldn't even be allowed to play with matches.

What the hell are you going to do? Make a 'T' motion to signal "Time Out" so you can chamber a round? I'm not even sure where to start with such a ridiculous statement. Would work fine on the range; not so much in real life.

I'm not going to get into a protracted argument over this. If you have questions about this; for the love of God; carry a Nerf Gun.

If you're one of the common sense crowd; continue practicing.

**EDIT** Made it through this without a single 'BLEEP'. Much to my chagrin.

Last edited by Harry_Gorilla; 07-03-2020 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 07-03-2020, 09:28 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Blazer View Post
Do you suppose many people do this?
Yeah, quite a few do. Some very capable warriors, in fact.

What I find interesting... or sad... or hilarious... are the keyboard jockeys who make bold blanket statements as if they possess superior handgun skills. Maybe they do, but I have a sneaking suspicion that most do not.

Rather than try to muster internet opposition to your colonel/mercenary/neighbor, consider for a moment that he might actually know a thing or two, and would be willing to give advice to a sincere student.
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Old 07-03-2020, 11:31 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyIronRob View Post
Yeah, quite a few do. Some very capable warriors, in fact.

What I find interesting... or sad... or hilarious... are the keyboard jockeys who make bold blanket statements as if they possess superior handgun skills. Maybe they do, but I have a sneaking suspicion that most do not.

Rather than try to muster internet opposition to your colonel/mercenary/neighbor, consider for a moment that he might actually know a thing or two, and would be willing to give advice to a sincere student.
I have no superior skills which is why I have to keep one in the chamber. I have been shot tho and thats the experience I go by.
Yourself and Harry are 100 % right tho in your posts and if I myself irritated anyone in anyway I apologize. WE should be glad and supportive of everyone that carries whatever way works for them. Especially people that are new to it and most likely worried with current events. After having been shot I know that a slide rack that seems fast now seems not so much then and I get a bit overzealous when I replay things and trying to make people understand that moment in time.
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Old 07-04-2020, 01:05 AM   #29
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The Israelis did that because in the early days of building an Army, the new recruits were having a lot of accidental discharges...it was the only way to keep some out of the hospital. It’s a lack of self-confidence handling the weapon.

They have to first recognize it as a problem and then want to change. A lot like people who drink Domestic Beer...
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Last edited by Czechvar; 07-04-2020 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 07-04-2020, 01:30 AM   #30
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I believe it to be foolish. But hey people, do as you wish. Working in a LGS the last few years. From what I've seen. Roughly 70 to 80% (in my area at least) carry without a chambered round.

Last edited by P49; 07-04-2020 at 01:32 AM.
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