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double action accuracy

This is a discussion on double action accuracy within the SIG Sauer Pistols forums, part of the SIG Sauer Forum category; Originally Posted by mrerick For those not familiar with the MantisX system, it's a small 3 axis accelerometer that encodes motion and transmits it via ...


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Old 09-05-2020, 01:08 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrerick View Post
For those not familiar with the MantisX system, it's a small 3 axis accelerometer that encodes motion and transmits it via BlueTooth to an application in your tablet or cell phone. The accelerometer mounts on either your gun's accessory rail, or on the bottom of a magazine.

The application can chart and record all motion just prior to and just after triggering a shot (either in dry fire or actual firing).

They are an outstanding measurement and learning tool for improving your trigger control. They are priced reasonably, and will contribute to your skills development. Unfortunately, they cost more than the Nickle or ballistic pencil I recommended earlier.

https://mantisx.com/

I also have one of these, and highly recommend it.


Thanks, good explanation of the Mantis X. Iíve been really impressed at how useful and elegantly designed this tool is. One of those rare products that really lives up to the hype. I understand the Marine Corp is now using this to train their shooters.


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Old 09-05-2020, 04:53 PM   #32
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Thank you for all of the great input!! TG
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Old 09-05-2020, 05:31 PM   #33
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How does the MantisX register the "shot"? Does it register the vibration from the striker? So, does it mean that I still have to pull the slide for every shot (like I need to do with G-Sight)?
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Old 09-06-2020, 01:55 AM   #34
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How does the MantisX register the "shot"? Does it register the vibration from the striker? So, does it mean that I still have to pull the slide for every shot (like I need to do with G-Sight)?
Yes. It registers any striker/hammer impact when dry firing. It is very good. I've never had it NOT register. Nor, have I ever had it register something that was not a "shot".

As well, it works with live firing.

So, if you really need/want the single-action feedback (without manipulating the slide or hammer), take it to the range.

It's a great device and it has improved my marksmanship with just a few weeks of use.
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Old 09-06-2020, 04:02 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nervous View Post
How does the MantisX register the "shot"? Does it register the vibration from the striker? So, does it mean that I still have to pull the slide for every shot (like I need to do with G-Sight)?


You can actually couple the Mantis X with a Dry Fire mag. It will allow you to keep pulling the trigger and the Mantis X will record each shot without ever having to pull back the slide manually between each shot. In fact, Mantis X sells their unit and the DryFire mag as a bundle which is cheaper than buying them separately. Both really good products that work very well together.


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Old 09-10-2020, 03:50 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by hauki View Post
I picked up a p226 9mm and a p229 357 sig this summer......
Congrats!

You will find that there are several models of triggers for these, direct from SIG, as well as some aftermarket options.

I've tried the SIG factory curved, the "short" curved, a flat dual adjustable (takeup and overtravel) from GrayGuns, and a Flat Dual adjustable from GrayGuns with their Enhanced Leverage System.

I prefer the last, and it's in my EDC P229 in .357SIG.

Assuming these are used guns, I'd recommend the SIG spring kits for each, as they are cheap, and you know you've got once they're in.

Another nice upgrade, if you don't already have it, is the Short Reset Kit. The doesn't directly effect the single action, but makes for a much crisper follow-shot. You can buy the kit direct from SIG, but I'd recommend going with the one from GrayGuns, as you will get a Gray-tweaked sear in the bag, which -will- make a little difference.

Grips also play a role, and it all comes together with the size of your hands, the length of your trigger finger, and your preferences.

Note that Bruce Gray coaches team SIG, and his triggers are used in the Legion Line.


In all cases, once you get a setup you like, dry-fire practice is key. There are a number of drills, just make sure you start with a cleared weapon.



Finally, you may find this a useful series of articles, and videos: https://www.realgunreviews.com/upgra...-legion-specs/


WB
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Old 09-10-2020, 05:35 PM   #37
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Ah, hah! The transition from double action to single is no small part of what brought on the striker pistol.
No doubt that double action first shot is great for administrative handling, especially for pointing at bad guys under stress.
We had a local cop who shot a BG (good shoot) in the head, twice. General opinion was that the second shot was, what, inadvertent, with a 92. BTW, the perp lived. :0
Good advice here on making the transition; it ain't easy. It's why I've gone to strikers for anything potentially serious.
As regards reducing the mainspring, remind yourself that the resistance of the hammer is part of what slows down the slide; as a PP noted, his gun was pounding itself with too light a mainspring.
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Old 09-11-2020, 03:43 AM   #38
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I switched to DA/SA for edc about 5 years ago. The decocker is what made me change. Getting older and carrying a 1911 cocked and locked just seamed a bit antiquated. Now, at first I struggled badly with the DA pull to the point of giving up but then I asked an old friend who is a retired LEO how to improve. His advice was, take 100 rounds and fire every one in DA until you consistently hit your POA. For me the trick was a quick and smooth pull and it only took about 75 rounds lol. By the way, the pistol was a 229 Elite. .357 Sig.
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Old 09-11-2020, 07:22 AM   #39
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If the transition from DA to SA on a hammer fired pistols is an issue, consider looking into the Heckler and Koch P30SK with the LEM (Law Enforcement Modification) trigger installed.

These are true hammer fired pistols, but the hammer spring is pre-tensioned, making the first DA seer release much like the rest. It's a bit like firing a striker fired pistol that just happens to have an external hammer.

This pistol, along with a HK VP9 (the striker fired version) have become my go-to carry pistols. Both are sized about the same, and have much the same "feel" when drawing, aiming and firing.
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Old 09-14-2020, 04:03 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrerick View Post
If the transition from DA to SA on a hammer fired pistols is an issue, consider looking into the Heckler and Koch P30SK with the LEM (Law Enforcement Modification) trigger installed.

These are true hammer fired pistols, but the hammer spring is pre-tensioned, making the first DA seer release much like the rest. It's a bit like firing a striker fired pistol that just happens to have an external hammer.

This pistol, along with a HK VP9 (the striker fired version) have become my go-to carry pistols. Both are sized about the same, and have much the same "feel" when drawing, aiming and firing.
Pre-tensioning... doesn't this negate the safety for the DA/SA pros?
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Old 09-14-2020, 06:49 PM   #41
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Personally I like a DA first shot on the draw, it helps me perfect/steady my aim while coming up. I compete with DA/SA Sig's and SA 1911/2011's and there's really no difference in first shot times. The difference is I'm on the trigger as soon as it clears the holster with a DA. And I don't even notice the transition.
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Old 09-19-2020, 04:22 AM   #42
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I work on this every range trip and it does take awhile to get comfortable with that first DA shot... A cop friend was kidding around with me about this and said once you think you got that first shot masterd throw in the pucker factor,,,,,, these B27s don't shoot back at us!!
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Old 09-19-2020, 06:21 PM   #43
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I've been carrying a DAK SAS in SIG 357 for a long time now, since they first came out actually. Well, I carry it in the winter and when I where a dress jacket in the fall and spring. Summertime I carry an IWB subcompact in 9mm.

Anways, when I got it, it came in 40 S&W which was much easier for me to reload at the time. Punched a bunch of paper with that, a few thousand rounds of inexpensive Winchester White Box 40 until I got used to the draw and first trigger pull on it ... within about two years I converted to SIG 357. I can reload SIG 357 like a boss these days, even bought a few thousand rounds of brass from Top Brass that I'm still reloading although I'm running short on pills.

DAK triggers get a bad rap IMHO. You just gotta put the time in with them and what everyone has recommended about dry firing and even the Mantis System is true.

I'll add one thing fwiw. Had a friend teach me this and it really works but it's easier to demonstrate than explain .... but I'll try.

Draw practice is one thing ... but to start with I would practice slow from the draw then straight to the low ready and from there drive the front of that pistol forward as if you have a bayonet attached and you're driving it into your point of impact. Forget about the back of the pistol and forget about focusing on the target ... just play like there's a bayonet attached and from the low ready drive the pistol out while, at the same time, taking up the slack on that trigger. (Do plenty of dry firing first to get the hang of it before you go live.)

It will not take long before you're on target and already ready to take the shot by the time you're extended, without even thinking about it and THAT is where the DAK shines. Hard to explain but it really works. Imagine that bayonet there and as you are driving the pistol forward you're also bringing the trigger back. Eventually it will become one smooth motion and that trigger really shines once it's broken in and you are comfortable with it.

Rear factory sight sucks (mine had that dang square dot under the notch - who's crappy idea was that) so you gotta fix that and there is a drop in trigger for them out there somewhere but ... and oh, my P229 is strictly 30 feet and in, it's not a P226 in 9. But inside of 30 feet it's money in the bank in 40 and SIG 357.

ASP turned me on to the Mantis system btw. Wish it was around back then. And some will tell you that you don't need dry fire caps .... but they are highly advised IMHO.

I've never understood all the practice from the draw unless you're shooting IDPA or IPSC or SASS. Self defense scenarios ... if someone already has the drop, and remember bad guys always chose the place and time, then you have to wait your turn and start from the low ready. Trying to win from the draw is almost always a loss. The Mantis will help with that some but the real trick is to drive forward front sight bayonet over and over again. Get used to making that trigger part of the entire motion and it completely changes things. Don't aim ... the system is not made for aiming IMHO. It's not meant to be a tack driver.

Anyways, it's just a suggestion. Hard to explain.

Edited: **** poor grammar and some autocorrect spelling errors. I hate autocorrect.
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Last edited by Gallo Pazzesco; 09-20-2020 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 09-20-2020, 02:48 AM   #44
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Gallo, I'm also a reloader in 40sw for my P226 tacops. I have a problem with loading nines the shells to small. Most of my practice is15yds and in. Oh yeah, I'm the guy who puts the Air in Airborne, I was a C130 Crew Chief 1968 - 72.... been to Pope a time or too giving you guys a ride.... Stand up,,,, hook up,,,,, Green lite,,,, let me see that airborne shuffle!!!!
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Old 09-20-2020, 02:00 PM   #45
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Just to pile on: I did not used to think you could group with DA. I was wrong. I actually shot headshots at 10 yards better the other day than I often do in SA.
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